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For 1, you're spot on. For 2, the one thing that's missing from here is that we _know_ many ISPs are selling your data. I'm really uncertain why people are so

For 1, you're spot on. For 2, the one thing that's missing from here is that we _know_ many ISPs are selling your data. I'm really uncertain why people are so determined to villify Cloudflare - who don't really stand to gain that much more useful info about you from this than they already have - and give a totally clear pass to their ISP despite years of proven bad behaviour. Yeah this (by default) uses CF's DoH service - note that you can change this if you want - but in my view that's strictly better than continuing to allow your ISP to to sell your browsing history. In other words - a bit of by-default centralisation is in my view an acceptable price to pay for the increases in privacy and security (especially as it's trivial to switch away from CF if they behave badly).

judge2020 7y ago
A good solution would be to do DoH upgrade to their existing provider if the user already has DNS set to a non-ISP resolver (eg. Google, openDNS), only using CF as a default for ISP dns. That or racing multiple DoH providers for the first few queries to choose the fastest one for the user.
- zrm 7y ago
  Internet gateways commonly give out the gateway's IP address as the DNS and then forward requests upstream from there. How does the application know which DNS the gateway is configured to use?
  - judge2020 7y ago
    In [currently only] Chrome, it doesn't upgrade if the DNS advertised is the router. This proposed Firefox system then would default to CF [or default to the fastest one].
syshum 7y ago
>who don't really stand to gain that much more useful info about you from this than they already have that is absolutely untrue. Today they only have data for websites already using CloudFlare Services. DoH they can info on ALL websites users for FF visit. and while their "contract" with mozilla requires they "anonymize" the data, they are admitted to collecting aggregate data which is VERY valuable in itself, plus I never trust companies when they say they will "anonymize" the data Further I have not see what if any penalties are imposed on cloudfare for any violations of the "contract" they have with Mozilla, if there are no penalties then the contract is pointless and not an assurance of anything As to why people villify Cloudflare, it is what CloudFlare represents that is a problem for people like me. The Internet is best serviced by decentralization. in the last 10 to 20 years we have seen and continue to see MASSIVE centralization of core infrastructure. FF move here represents another step on that path. CloudFare already has too much of the net behind their infrastructure. They are an inherit threat to the free and open web

judge2020 7y ago

A good solution would be to do DoH upgrade to their existing provider if the user already has DNS set to a non-ISP resolver (eg. Google, openDNS), only using CF as a default for ISP dns. That or racing multiple DoH providers for the first few queries to choose the fastest one for the user.

zrm 7y ago
Internet gateways commonly give out the gateway's IP address as the DNS and then forward requests upstream from there. How does the application know which DNS the gateway is configured to use?
- judge2020 7y ago
  In [currently only] Chrome, it doesn't upgrade if the DNS advertised is the router. This proposed Firefox system then would default to CF [or default to the fastest one].

syshum 7y ago

>who don't really stand to gain that much more useful info about you from this than they already have that is absolutely untrue. Today they only have data for websites already using CloudFlare Services. DoH they can info on ALL websites users for FF visit. and while their "contract" with mozilla requires they "anonymize" the data, they are admitted to collecting aggregate data which is VERY valuable in itself, plus I never trust companies when they say they will "anonymize" the data Further I have not see what if any penalties are imposed on cloudfare for any violations of the "contract" they have with Mozilla, if there are no penalties then the contract is pointless and not an assurance of anything As to why people villify Cloudflare, it is what CloudFlare represents that is a problem for people like me. The Internet is best serviced by decentralization. in the last 10 to 20 years we have seen and continue to see MASSIVE centralization of core infrastructure. FF move here represents another step on that path. CloudFare already has too much of the net behind their infrastructure. They are an inherit threat to the free and open web