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Revolut is predatory and walking on the line of legality. I would stay as far away as I can from them. - Unfair/illegal employment practices. [1] - Dubios

Revolut is predatory and walking on the line of legality. I would stay as far away as I can from them. - Unfair/illegal employment practices. [1] - Dubios crypto service (you can buy and sell but there is no way to transfer in or out) [2] - Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot [3] - Accusations of money laundry. [4] - Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen. [5] [1] https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-fintech-politics-storonsky https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-... [2] First hand experience [3] First hand experience trying to deal with customer support [4] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47751945 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47751945 [5] https://old.reddit.com/r/Revolut/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Revolut/, https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/Betrueger-stehlen-Revolut-Kunde-30-000---26322505 https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/Betrueger-stehlen-Re...

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
Sources?
- dx034 7y ago
  The lack of in-person or even phone support is practiced by quite a few banking start ups. This also means that if they block your account for any reason (e.g. suspected fraud), it can be very hard to get hold of them. N26 has had similar issues with people not being able to access their money for weeks after their account got blocked. Not sure where the rest of the accusations comes from.
  - tasogare 7y ago
    Yep, N26 has utterly crappy user service that don't even know how to browse a governmental webpage when you send them the link. I was able to withdraw my money before they lock my account, be now I stay far from them. Anyway, this is bad because the service provided by these two banks (mainly low international or inter-device fees) are really a must for anyone living in a foreign country, or moving frequently internationally.
- committed 7y ago
  Revolut has quite a big customer base in Lithuania and recently many articles have been published about people having their accounts frozen without notice. Article in Lithuanian: https://www.delfi.lt/verslas/mano-eurai/revolut-klientai-pranesa-apie-isaldomas-saskaitas-pinigai-sulaikomi-atsakymo-nesulaukia.d?id=83303695 https://www.delfi.lt/verslas/mano-eurai/revolut-klientai-pra...
  - KptMarchewa 7y ago
    Freezing without notice is exactly the point of money laundering laws. https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response
fauria 7y ago
Can you provide links or any other kind of source for these statements? Customers would be mostly concerned about the fifth one, probably: Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen.
- bad_user 7y ago
  Revolut started blocking accounts with transactions going over some limit, demanding proof for the source of that money, to prevent money laundering. Happened to me, their response was slow, had my account unfrozen in a week or two. I've never heard claims of money being stolen though, might be hyperbole.
  - wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
    While those things could be true, as a N26 and Revolut free customer, I have to say that yes, they use customer service chat bots, but when you ask for humans, their assistance to me was always good, quick, and solved my issues.
    - bad_user 7y ago
      I was on Premium when my account was frozen ;-) And I did ask for humans, on 3 separate days, as I said, took about 10 days to get a reply.
      - KptMarchewa 7y ago
        You're not talking to support when your account gets locked, you're talking to compliance. And it takes time due to same reason Monzo has talked about: https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response
  - luckylion 7y ago
    Did they give any explanation as to why they think that's legal, freezing accounts and blocking payments on a whim, without some court's decision?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ainiriand 7y ago
- there is no way to transfer in or out Why you say so? I had some eth and converted it back to eur to take it out. If you are referring to having an eth/btc wallet, yeah, it is not that. So far my experience with the Metal Plan is really pleasant and I recommend it to anyone.
- reportgunner 7y ago
  Parent comment meant transfer crypto in or out.
peteretep 7y ago
What’s dubious about their crypto service? They’re offering a way to give yourself simple exposure to crypto without a wallet. As the primary use of crypto right now is speculation, seems ideal.
- lawn 7y ago
  That you're not actually buying cryptocurrencies with it. It's just an IOU from Revolut, with very dubious protection. With the unregulated part of crypto I would bet you'd have absolutely zero protection if Revolut went out of business or just closed your account for some unknown reason.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    That’s true of any deposit with Revolut as they’re not a bank — as I understand it anyway. It’s as true of Euros or USD as it is for Bitcoin. They’re done as a business the first time they lose customer money though, and that feels like a reasonable hedge.
    - ValentineC 7y ago
      > They’re done as a business the first time they lose customer money though, and that feels like a reasonable hedge. I don't know if they're required to undergo any financial audits, but I hope they don't grow "too big to fail" when they inevitably get compromised in some way.
bradvl 7y ago
I am not an employment law expert, but there is nothing remotely illegal about those other things. In fact, the way they do crypto is very clever - it reduces money laundering risk massively.
- ValentineC 7y ago
  > In fact, the way they do crypto is very clever I don't know if it makes a difference practically, but it's probably different if they actually held the crypto balance in a cold wallet, versus the balance just being a number on a ledger that's pegged to an exchange rate.
hkjlhoiuwer 7y ago
They are very convenient though. And they have the best FX rates for those who care. I only keep a minimum amount on Revolut (<$200), and only top up as needed. This way I don't particularly care if my money gets lost.
- GeneralTspoon 7y ago
  Monzo/Starling/TransferWise all have as good an FX rate last time I checked.
  - Reason077 7y ago
    It's worth pointing out that Monzo and Starling are bona fide banks with UK banking licenses, with the legal protections and deposit guarantees which that entails. Revolut and TransferWise, like PayPal, are not.
  - khweroii 7y ago
    Yes, but Revolut edges them out (2 pip vs 20+ pip spread). When you convert $30k like I did, I got an extra $100 or so, which payed for one year of Revolut Premium - so I basically got Premium for free.
thefounder 7y ago
>> Revolut is predatory and walking on the line of legality. Like most of the banks, right? [0] I find their chat communication quite great. After all you can't send documents over a phone call. >> Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen. Is there a bank that doesn't do that? If you want to own your money use cash or digital/crypto https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-usa/hsbc-draws-line-under-mexican-cartel-case-after-five-years-on-probation-idUSKBN1E50YA https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-usa/hsbc-draws-line-...
- netcan 7y ago
  >>Like most of the banks, right? Yes and no. "Predatory" can mean different things. Most banks are super-cautious, day-to-day. They can be predatory in certain way, taking advantage of customers with things like outrageous overdraft fees, exchange rates and such. They can be feckless, accumulating long-tail, systemic risk with Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose games.^ The old banks are bad in lots of ways, but actually very safe in terms of big individual risk. Revolut is feckless and/or predatory in a more startup-ey way. They'll "bet the house" on growth. They're also prone to the start-upy customer service "minimalism" math. Customer service is hard, expensive, and generally follows the pareto principle (80/20). IE, most customers don't need much support. Say 8% do. Those 8% are not profitable, and Revolut is willing to (even prefers to) lose them as customers. So, if something goes wrong... you could be in shit. They also just plain takes risks, like. Last years, their CFO walked out suddenly in response to risk. All this is not unlike Google and many other companies. I have had downright awful experiences with paypal. For a bank though, this is scary. I use Revolut. The service is convenient for me, but I won't keep much money in it or be dependant on them for anything critical. ^ HIWTYL - Pronounced Hightail
  - thefounder 7y ago
    >> They're also prone to the start-upy customer service "minimalism" math. I have found their customer service to be very good. They respond within 2-3 minutes so I don't know what you could ask more. It's nothing like Paypal.
throwaway9d0291 7y ago
Please don't list things like this without making at least a 10-second effort to provide sources, it makes it very difficult to engage. > Unfair/illegal employment practices. Source? Elaboration? Best I could find is [0] which certainly looks bad but I can't find any references to court cases or employment authorities cracking down (and the UK has pretty decent worker protection). > Dubios crypto service (you can buy and sell but there is no way to transfer in or out) What you call "Dubios", I call an easy way for people to play around with crypto without figuring out all the wallets and whatnot. It also avoids a lot of the AML issues around crypto. > Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot You write the word "human" in the chat and you pretty much instantly get put through to a human. There's no firewall here. > Accusations of money laundry. I think you're referring to the events leading up to [1]. Revolut wasn't accused of money laundering, it was reported that one of its systems had been disabled and this may have led to some activity going unnoticed. The CEO later claimed that the system was disabled but an older system was put in its place [2]. The newer system wasn't performing as expected so they reverted it. This is very different to say HSBC, which was found to be actively participating in money laundering. Also, "accusations" are just that, accusations. Most societies operate under a presumption of innocence rather than presumption of guilt. [0]: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-fintech-politics-storonsky https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-... [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/01/revolut-cfo-peter-ohiggins-resigns/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/01/revolut-cfo-peter-ohiggins... [2]: https://blog.revolut.com/let-me-sec-the-record-straight/ https://blog.revolut.com/let-me-sec-the-record-straight/
- sschueller 7y ago
  > Unfair/illegal employment practices. Requiring people to bring you new clients before you get employed and not compensating them is illegal in many places. Maybe not the UK. > Dubios crypto service They don't disclose that you can not transfer in or out. > Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot I had to deal with this. If your app doesn't work you are screwed. There is no email, no phone. > Accusations of money laundry. Fair enough.
ulfw 7y ago
It's these kind of companies that get investor money these days. See Uber, see WeWork etc. Sadly.

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago

Sources?

dx034 7y ago
The lack of in-person or even phone support is practiced by quite a few banking start ups. This also means that if they block your account for any reason (e.g. suspected fraud), it can be very hard to get hold of them. N26 has had similar issues with people not being able to access their money for weeks after their account got blocked. Not sure where the rest of the accusations comes from.
- tasogare 7y ago
  Yep, N26 has utterly crappy user service that don't even know how to browse a governmental webpage when you send them the link. I was able to withdraw my money before they lock my account, be now I stay far from them. Anyway, this is bad because the service provided by these two banks (mainly low international or inter-device fees) are really a must for anyone living in a foreign country, or moving frequently internationally.
committed 7y ago
Revolut has quite a big customer base in Lithuania and recently many articles have been published about people having their accounts frozen without notice. Article in Lithuanian: https://www.delfi.lt/verslas/mano-eurai/revolut-klientai-pranesa-apie-isaldomas-saskaitas-pinigai-sulaikomi-atsakymo-nesulaukia.d?id=83303695 https://www.delfi.lt/verslas/mano-eurai/revolut-klientai-pra...
- KptMarchewa 7y ago
  Freezing without notice is exactly the point of money laundering laws. https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response

fauria 7y ago

Can you provide links or any other kind of source for these statements? Customers would be mostly concerned about the fifth one, probably: Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen.

bad_user 7y ago
Revolut started blocking accounts with transactions going over some limit, demanding proof for the source of that money, to prevent money laundering. Happened to me, their response was slow, had my account unfrozen in a week or two. I've never heard claims of money being stolen though, might be hyperbole.
- wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
  While those things could be true, as a N26 and Revolut free customer, I have to say that yes, they use customer service chat bots, but when you ask for humans, their assistance to me was always good, quick, and solved my issues.
  - bad_user 7y ago
    I was on Premium when my account was frozen ;-) And I did ask for humans, on 3 separate days, as I said, took about 10 days to get a reply.
    - KptMarchewa 7y ago
      You're not talking to support when your account gets locked, you're talking to compliance. And it takes time due to same reason Monzo has talked about: https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response https://monzo.com/blog/2019/10/18/watchdog-response
- luckylion 7y ago
  Did they give any explanation as to why they think that's legal, freezing accounts and blocking payments on a whim, without some court's decision?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ainiriand 7y ago

- there is no way to transfer in or out Why you say so? I had some eth and converted it back to eur to take it out. If you are referring to having an eth/btc wallet, yeah, it is not that. So far my experience with the Metal Plan is really pleasant and I recommend it to anyone.

reportgunner 7y ago
Parent comment meant transfer crypto in or out.

peteretep 7y ago

What’s dubious about their crypto service? They’re offering a way to give yourself simple exposure to crypto without a wallet. As the primary use of crypto right now is speculation, seems ideal.

lawn 7y ago
That you're not actually buying cryptocurrencies with it. It's just an IOU from Revolut, with very dubious protection. With the unregulated part of crypto I would bet you'd have absolutely zero protection if Revolut went out of business or just closed your account for some unknown reason.
- peteretep 7y ago
  That’s true of any deposit with Revolut as they’re not a bank — as I understand it anyway. It’s as true of Euros or USD as it is for Bitcoin. They’re done as a business the first time they lose customer money though, and that feels like a reasonable hedge.
  - ValentineC 7y ago
    > They’re done as a business the first time they lose customer money though, and that feels like a reasonable hedge. I don't know if they're required to undergo any financial audits, but I hope they don't grow "too big to fail" when they inevitably get compromised in some way.

bradvl 7y ago

I am not an employment law expert, but there is nothing remotely illegal about those other things. In fact, the way they do crypto is very clever - it reduces money laundering risk massively.

ValentineC 7y ago
> In fact, the way they do crypto is very clever I don't know if it makes a difference practically, but it's probably different if they actually held the crypto balance in a cold wallet, versus the balance just being a number on a ledger that's pegged to an exchange rate.

hkjlhoiuwer 7y ago

They are very convenient though. And they have the best FX rates for those who care. I only keep a minimum amount on Revolut (<$200), and only top up as needed. This way I don't particularly care if my money gets lost.

GeneralTspoon 7y ago
Monzo/Starling/TransferWise all have as good an FX rate last time I checked.
- Reason077 7y ago
  It's worth pointing out that Monzo and Starling are bona fide banks with UK banking licenses, with the legal protections and deposit guarantees which that entails. Revolut and TransferWise, like PayPal, are not.
- khweroii 7y ago
  Yes, but Revolut edges them out (2 pip vs 20+ pip spread). When you convert $30k like I did, I got an extra $100 or so, which payed for one year of Revolut Premium - so I basically got Premium for free.

thefounder 7y ago

>> Revolut is predatory and walking on the line of legality. Like most of the banks, right? [0] I find their chat communication quite great. After all you can't send documents over a phone call. >> Many people have had their accounts frozen or even money stolen. Is there a bank that doesn't do that? If you want to own your money use cash or digital/crypto https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-usa/hsbc-draws-line-under-mexican-cartel-case-after-five-years-on-probation-idUSKBN1E50YA https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-usa/hsbc-draws-line-...

netcan 7y ago
>>Like most of the banks, right? Yes and no. "Predatory" can mean different things. Most banks are super-cautious, day-to-day. They can be predatory in certain way, taking advantage of customers with things like outrageous overdraft fees, exchange rates and such. They can be feckless, accumulating long-tail, systemic risk with Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose games.^ The old banks are bad in lots of ways, but actually very safe in terms of big individual risk. Revolut is feckless and/or predatory in a more startup-ey way. They'll "bet the house" on growth. They're also prone to the start-upy customer service "minimalism" math. Customer service is hard, expensive, and generally follows the pareto principle (80/20). IE, most customers don't need much support. Say 8% do. Those 8% are not profitable, and Revolut is willing to (even prefers to) lose them as customers. So, if something goes wrong... you could be in shit. They also just plain takes risks, like. Last years, their CFO walked out suddenly in response to risk. All this is not unlike Google and many other companies. I have had downright awful experiences with paypal. For a bank though, this is scary. I use Revolut. The service is convenient for me, but I won't keep much money in it or be dependant on them for anything critical. ^ HIWTYL - Pronounced Hightail
- thefounder 7y ago
  >> They're also prone to the start-upy customer service "minimalism" math. I have found their customer service to be very good. They respond within 2-3 minutes so I don't know what you could ask more. It's nothing like Paypal.

throwaway9d0291 7y ago

Please don't list things like this without making at least a 10-second effort to provide sources, it makes it very difficult to engage. > Unfair/illegal employment practices. Source? Elaboration? Best I could find is [0] which certainly looks bad but I can't find any references to court cases or employment authorities cracking down (and the UK has pretty decent worker protection). > Dubios crypto service (you can buy and sell but there is no way to transfer in or out) What you call "Dubios", I call an easy way for people to play around with crypto without figuring out all the wallets and whatnot. It also avoids a lot of the AML issues around crypto. > Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot You write the word "human" in the chat and you pretty much instantly get put through to a human. There's no firewall here. > Accusations of money laundry. I think you're referring to the events leading up to [1]. Revolut wasn't accused of money laundering, it was reported that one of its systems had been disabled and this may have led to some activity going unnoticed. The CEO later claimed that the system was disabled but an older system was put in its place [2]. The newer system wasn't performing as expected so they reverted it. This is very different to say HSBC, which was found to be actively participating in money laundering. Also, "accusations" are just that, accusations. Most societies operate under a presumption of innocence rather than presumption of guilt. [0]: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-fintech-politics-storonsky https://www.wired.co.uk/article/revolut-trade-unions-labour-... [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/01/revolut-cfo-peter-ohiggins-resigns/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/01/revolut-cfo-peter-ohiggins... [2]: https://blog.revolut.com/let-me-sec-the-record-straight/ https://blog.revolut.com/let-me-sec-the-record-straight/

sschueller 7y ago
> Unfair/illegal employment practices. Requiring people to bring you new clients before you get employed and not compensating them is illegal in many places. Maybe not the UK. > Dubios crypto service They don't disclose that you can not transfer in or out. > Keeping a firewall between customers and company by only allowing communication via app chatbot I had to deal with this. If your app doesn't work you are screwed. There is no email, no phone. > Accusations of money laundry. Fair enough.

ulfw 7y ago

It's these kind of companies that get investor money these days. See Uber, see WeWork etc. Sadly.