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You get what you pay for. You can pay a lot of money and have almost no worries (and lots of free time), or pay a little money and have lots of worries (and no

You get what you pay for. You can pay a lot of money and have almost no worries (and lots of free time), or pay a little money and have lots of worries (and no free time). And since the OP was talking about Kubernetes, and you're talking about "lock-in", another reason I love AWS is it is not a lock-in device. I can use any service of AWS's by itself, without being forced to use anything else or do something in a proprietary way. All the interfaces are a command-line or REST API with JSON data formats. They are all designed to operate by themselves, so you can provide replacement components at any time, hosted anywhere. On the other hand, you can't just use one part of K8s, because you have to at least set up and manage an entire cluster first. And there's dozens of services K8s simply does not have, and other hosting providers don't have.

vraivroo 7y ago
Baloney. All the major clouds offer managed k8s. And using k8s in no way precludes you from integrating with services that are not on k8s (of course though, k8s can run anything you can containerize). So AWS has vastly more "lock-in" debt than k8s.
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  To replace an AWS service, you just plug in a different service integration, or use a literal API complete clone. To replace the use of any part of K8s with something non-K8s, you basically have to replace all your use of anything in K8s. So the debt is much higher with k8s because it takes much more engineering work to get off it and it's not compatible with anything but itself. Furthermore, just because someone has a managed k8s doesn't make it less lock-in or less work. With AWS you don't need to use a cluster of anything. With k8s you are signing yourself up to tons of complex services and specific design and operation paradigms. With AWS you have no such inherent restrictions. K8s is inherently more complex and difficult to use than AWS services, which aren't even a good comparison because they are so simple by comparison.
darkwater 7y ago
> You get what you pay for. You can pay a lot of money and have almost no worries (and lots of free time), or pay a little money and have lots of worries (and no free time). This is, in my experience, quite a false statement when talking about AWS. You are either a (team of) 10x engineer(s) capable of anything or as you grow in people and services you will need to use a good chunk of your developer time managing AWS, or hire a dedicated person (sysadmin).
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  There are literally compete turn-key solutions in AWS marketplace to most things any business needs to do that you don't need to be an engineer to use. A monkey who can read a walk-through with screenshots can build clusters of apps and CI/CD pipelines with AWS. And there are thousands of companies that you can pay to help manage your AWS resources. Just because businesses hire dedicated backed people doesn't mean they actually need to, they just feel better about it when they do, because that's how it was always done before.

vraivroo 7y ago

Baloney. All the major clouds offer managed k8s. And using k8s in no way precludes you from integrating with services that are not on k8s (of course though, k8s can run anything you can containerize). So AWS has vastly more "lock-in" debt than k8s.

peterwwillis 7y ago
To replace an AWS service, you just plug in a different service integration, or use a literal API complete clone. To replace the use of any part of K8s with something non-K8s, you basically have to replace all your use of anything in K8s. So the debt is much higher with k8s because it takes much more engineering work to get off it and it's not compatible with anything but itself. Furthermore, just because someone has a managed k8s doesn't make it less lock-in or less work. With AWS you don't need to use a cluster of anything. With k8s you are signing yourself up to tons of complex services and specific design and operation paradigms. With AWS you have no such inherent restrictions. K8s is inherently more complex and difficult to use than AWS services, which aren't even a good comparison because they are so simple by comparison.

darkwater 7y ago

> You get what you pay for. You can pay a lot of money and have almost no worries (and lots of free time), or pay a little money and have lots of worries (and no free time). This is, in my experience, quite a false statement when talking about AWS. You are either a (team of) 10x engineer(s) capable of anything or as you grow in people and services you will need to use a good chunk of your developer time managing AWS, or hire a dedicated person (sysadmin).

peterwwillis 7y ago
There are literally compete turn-key solutions in AWS marketplace to most things any business needs to do that you don't need to be an engineer to use. A monkey who can read a walk-through with screenshots can build clusters of apps and CI/CD pipelines with AWS. And there are thousands of companies that you can pay to help manage your AWS resources. Just because businesses hire dedicated backed people doesn't mean they actually need to, they just feel better about it when they do, because that's how it was always done before.