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Your point is well-taken, and being overlooked, so here it is explicitly: to implement "wet. messy business logic" is, by definition, to implement "a complex al

Your point is well-taken, and being overlooked, so here it is explicitly: to implement "wet. messy business logic" is, by definition, to implement "a complex algorithm".

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
I don't think it's being overlooked. It's being seen as pedantry, correctly I think. It's obvious what the parent poster meant, right? Sure the messy business logic is an algorithm in the technical sense. But everyone knows that when people mean when they say that most developers aren't writing fancy algorithms. You know it's kind of funny how this very conversation mirrors the criticisms of Haskell leveled in the top post! Someone is trying to insist that language fit in a neat mathematical box where words are stripped of their colloquial meanings and force us to only use dictionary definitions. But language and the real world just refuse to be so clean! Ha!
- pyrale 7y ago
  It is also obvious that the parent poster apparently assumes that they have seen problems that no fp developer has seen ever. Functional languages have been around in production for decades now. They have met and adapted to pretty much all the real-worldliness and messiness and pragmaticness you can think of. And these days, the concepts they came up with are being massively adapted to enterprise darlings such as java or c#. Could we get more consideration than the old "You don't know real world"?
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    Parent poster self-identifies as a Haskell lover. It doesn't seem like they're assuming anything. They're making an informed observation.
    - pyrale 7y ago
      Oh, since they self-identify as haskell lover, we can safely ignore the contrary answers from people actually having shipped business logic with haskell then.
jandrese 7y ago
To me a "complex algorithm" is something that's grinding through the data doing some kind of interesting transform. Dealing with the tons and tons of crap people will put down in a field no matter how explicit you make your directions is not a fancy algorithm. It's down and dirty drudgework that is of little interest to the more math oriented algorithm side of the house.
- pyrale 7y ago
  Validation is a very common use case of applicative functors. Aside from the intimidating name, are there issues with it?

Your point is well-taken, and being overlooked, so here it is explicitly: to implement "wet. messy business logic" is, by definition, to implement "a complex algorithm".

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago

I don't think it's being overlooked. It's being seen as pedantry, correctly I think. It's obvious what the parent poster meant, right? Sure the messy business logic is an algorithm in the technical sense. But everyone knows that when people mean when they say that most developers aren't writing fancy algorithms. You know it's kind of funny how this very conversation mirrors the criticisms of Haskell leveled in the top post! Someone is trying to insist that language fit in a neat mathematical box where words are stripped of their colloquial meanings and force us to only use dictionary definitions. But language and the real world just refuse to be so clean! Ha!

pyrale 7y ago
It is also obvious that the parent poster apparently assumes that they have seen problems that no fp developer has seen ever. Functional languages have been around in production for decades now. They have met and adapted to pretty much all the real-worldliness and messiness and pragmaticness you can think of. And these days, the concepts they came up with are being massively adapted to enterprise darlings such as java or c#. Could we get more consideration than the old "You don't know real world"?
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  Parent poster self-identifies as a Haskell lover. It doesn't seem like they're assuming anything. They're making an informed observation.
  - pyrale 7y ago
    Oh, since they self-identify as haskell lover, we can safely ignore the contrary answers from people actually having shipped business logic with haskell then.

jandrese 7y ago

To me a "complex algorithm" is something that's grinding through the data doing some kind of interesting transform. Dealing with the tons and tons of crap people will put down in a field no matter how explicit you make your directions is not a fancy algorithm. It's down and dirty drudgework that is of little interest to the more math oriented algorithm side of the house.

pyrale 7y ago
Validation is a very common use case of applicative functors. Aside from the intimidating name, are there issues with it?