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"Apple is the most vertically integrated company in the world." I struggle to see how that statement could be true for a company that outsources all of its man

"Apple is the most vertically integrated company in the world." I struggle to see how that statement could be true for a company that outsources all of its manufacturing.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
flyt 16y ago
Apple 'outsources' all of its marketing to TBWA\Chiat\Day but that doesn't affect the quality of the output, or their control over what gets produced. Just because they don't own the tools doesn't mean that they aren't telling people exactly how to use them.
- fuzzmeister 16y ago
  Of course. I'm simply saying it makes them less vertically integrated.
  - vaporstun 16y ago
    But in spite of the fact that they outsource manufacturing, they have their own OS, hardware they've designed for the external (such as the chassis), and components they've designed internally (like the A4) - they're still far more vertically integrated than any competitor. Do you have any more vertically integrated player in the market that has yet to be discussed? The rest of the companies use off-the-shelf parts and an OS they haven't designed. They all are far less vertically integrated. Certainly Apple is not completely integrated vertically, but that doesn't mean they aren't more so than any of their competitors.
    - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
      Samsung designs and builds chips (the A4 with another name basically), AMOLED screens, RAM, flash, chassis and OS (Bada) for some of its smartphones. Probably even more so for its dumbphones. I'm guessing Nokia is also more "vertical" than Apple. And that's just immediate rivals in this industry, I'm sure there's better examples if you only limit it to "in the world".
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - pohl 16y ago
        Is having one's fingers in a lot of pies quite the same thing as vertical integration? If a team making a Samsung phone needs a chip made by another arm of Samsung, do they get special pricing or do they have to bid against other chip customers?
markszcz 16y ago
The wording here is "most" There was an article written in 2006 saying "Designed By Apple in California. Made in a sweat-shop in China." (http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/06/designed_by_app.html http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/06/designed_by_app....) Architecturally wise they are vertically integreated with all their in house hardware and software but I dont think anyone can argue that their manufacturing practices dont help that statement.
- iwwr 16y ago
  There used to be a time when Left-leaning people knew some history. Terrible as the worker conditions might have been at the dawn of the Industrial Age, they were a vast improvement compared to the past. Equally so, unpleasant as Chinese factories may look to a Westerner, they are an improvement over the past. Have people actually asked those workers if they were willing to quit or had better prospects elsewhere?
  - psykotic 16y ago
    > There used to be a time when Left-leaning people knew some history. Everyone tends to view history from an angle that supports their preconceptions. You don't seem to be any exception. > Terrible as the worker conditions might have been at the dawn of the Industrial Age, they were a vast improvement compared to the past. How are you defining worker conditions? A family with a small plot in the countryside could not occupy their full time with cultivating the land. If you travel throughout the deep countryside of countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, China and the poorer parts of Thailand like Isaan, you still see much evidence of this today. People moved to the cities because they could make more money. It's that simple. In no way were working conditions an improvement if you care about hours, health and safety. The ready availability of jobs for unskilled labor also created perverse incentives for parents to send their children to work at the factories. That was true in late 18th and early 19th century Europe, and it is still true today in the poorer emerging economies.
    - iwwr 16y ago
      And you suppose making more money, or wanting to, is somehow evil?

"Apple is the most vertically integrated company in the world." I struggle to see how that statement could be true for a company that outsources all of its manufacturing.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

flyt 16y ago

Apple 'outsources' all of its marketing to TBWA\Chiat\Day but that doesn't affect the quality of the output, or their control over what gets produced. Just because they don't own the tools doesn't mean that they aren't telling people exactly how to use them.

fuzzmeister 16y ago
Of course. I'm simply saying it makes them less vertically integrated.
- vaporstun 16y ago
  But in spite of the fact that they outsource manufacturing, they have their own OS, hardware they've designed for the external (such as the chassis), and components they've designed internally (like the A4) - they're still far more vertically integrated than any competitor. Do you have any more vertically integrated player in the market that has yet to be discussed? The rest of the companies use off-the-shelf parts and an OS they haven't designed. They all are far less vertically integrated. Certainly Apple is not completely integrated vertically, but that doesn't mean they aren't more so than any of their competitors.
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
    Samsung designs and builds chips (the A4 with another name basically), AMOLED screens, RAM, flash, chassis and OS (Bada) for some of its smartphones. Probably even more so for its dumbphones. I'm guessing Nokia is also more "vertical" than Apple. And that's just immediate rivals in this industry, I'm sure there's better examples if you only limit it to "in the world".
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - pohl 16y ago
      Is having one's fingers in a lot of pies quite the same thing as vertical integration? If a team making a Samsung phone needs a chip made by another arm of Samsung, do they get special pricing or do they have to bid against other chip customers?

markszcz 16y ago

The wording here is "most" There was an article written in 2006 saying "Designed By Apple in California. Made in a sweat-shop in China." (http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/06/designed_by_app.html http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/06/designed_by_app....) Architecturally wise they are vertically integreated with all their in house hardware and software but I dont think anyone can argue that their manufacturing practices dont help that statement.

iwwr 16y ago
There used to be a time when Left-leaning people knew some history. Terrible as the worker conditions might have been at the dawn of the Industrial Age, they were a vast improvement compared to the past. Equally so, unpleasant as Chinese factories may look to a Westerner, they are an improvement over the past. Have people actually asked those workers if they were willing to quit or had better prospects elsewhere?
- psykotic 16y ago
  > There used to be a time when Left-leaning people knew some history. Everyone tends to view history from an angle that supports their preconceptions. You don't seem to be any exception. > Terrible as the worker conditions might have been at the dawn of the Industrial Age, they were a vast improvement compared to the past. How are you defining worker conditions? A family with a small plot in the countryside could not occupy their full time with cultivating the land. If you travel throughout the deep countryside of countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, China and the poorer parts of Thailand like Isaan, you still see much evidence of this today. People moved to the cities because they could make more money. It's that simple. In no way were working conditions an improvement if you care about hours, health and safety. The ready availability of jobs for unskilled labor also created perverse incentives for parents to send their children to work at the factories. That was true in late 18th and early 19th century Europe, and it is still true today in the poorer emerging economies.
  - iwwr 16y ago
    And you suppose making more money, or wanting to, is somehow evil?