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Lets assume that the situation changes over the next 15 years and these outsourcing places get really legitimately good at making software. What can we, the hi

Lets assume that the situation changes over the next 15 years and these outsourcing places get really legitimately good at making software. What can we, the highly paid locals, can do to justify our high salaries at that hypothetical future point? (playing starcraft taught me a tremendous amount of respect for East Asian creativity and work ethic)

user5994461 7y ago
What do you mean by highly paid locals? With the exception of the Silicon Valley or NYC bubble, developers in big cities in developed countries are approaching US and European salaries and they are increasing quickly. Well, truth be told they're already surpassed us. If you want cheaper, you might as well go to Spain or Italy or even France.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  That's not really true man. I've worked with devs from Argentina and Ghana, and let's just say we were all surprised at how much the managers at my company were paying to those consulting firms. Think devs getting USD350 to USD1500 per month while I knew for a fact that USD50 to USD225 per hour was being paid out. I think a lot of devs in the West would be almost shocked at the amount of money devs make in other places.
cosmodisk 7y ago
What differentiates US (most big software names come from there) from the rest of the world is their ability to sell. There are already enough countries on this planet that can produce high quality software that could be sold as hot buns.What most of those countries don't have is the huge VC industry+ tons of people who know how and who to sell be it B2B or B2C. This, however is changing slowly and you can expect much more level field over the next 10-15 years.
- pm90 7y ago
  This is not accurate at all. What really differentiates the US is: * fucking largest economy by far as your domestic market ie no import duties or import/export taxes * truly massive investment by Government and Private sector into CS research * high tech economy focused mostly on services which demands all tools it can get to improve business processes * high disposable income via financial instruments for cheap debt (also less taxes than most developed countries) * largest talent pool of Universities that keeps bringing in the best and brightest across the world The ability to sell is far far less important than the systemic reasons listed above that give the US an incredible edge in the software industry.
inertiatic 7y ago
Most of the tech behemoths already have offices around the world. Maybe these offices are just following the great standards set by the people working at the HQ. Even then, there are a bunch of companies that have their engineering based in other countries. I personally worked for a few companies that are major player in their fields (although not unicorns) that have offices here in the Greece. Most of these companies have one thing in common, the leadership, everyone at the C level, work and live in the US. In fact, the companies I worked for had HQs in the SV. I don't think SV has a significantly better talent pool. My anecdote is that my local team has had more than a couple laughs looking at code written by our SV-based colleagues. But I think that building your business there certainly gives you a huge advantage. Your engineering doesn't need to be there.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  >Your engineering doesn't need to be there. and I'm fair certain engineering won't be there in the future. Probably not even in the US. Just the research-y type stuff might stay here longer to be close to the universities. But assuming the market is left to its own development, ginormous US based engineering teams will likely go the way of the Dodo bird in the future.
  - inertiatic 7y ago
    I don't know if I can make an informed prediction, but even if I could I don't think I would be that extreme. I would expect salaries to fall but I wouldn't expect software development to move entirely. It should make sense for a lot of companies to pay a premium to keep their workforce closer to their leadership.
  - phonebanshee 7y ago
    People have been saying variations of this for several decades. So far they've been wrong.
    - pm90 7y ago
      Perhaps what’s really missing is some good videoconferencing mechanism.
SamuelAdams 7y ago
Since no one answered your question the best thing to do is become very good at working with end users. BA work isn't the same as software development but it is harder to outsource. You usually need someone on site who can effectively communicate with project stakeholders to capture requirements and write them down in a way that developers at these shops can pick them up and run with. That is a much needed skill, I've seen many BA's make 100k+ at non FAANG companies in cities where the median household income is 45k.
PeterisP 7y ago
The value that the role produces, and the growing demand for even more software. Currently the companies can make a profit paying the current high salaries and selling products, and they need more developers - so one can expect that as the price difference erodes, it will mostly be by the salaries of the Asian developers being brought up to current first world levels, not the first world salaries (for software - less so for some other jobs) being brought down to the global average.

user5994461 7y ago

What do you mean by highly paid locals? With the exception of the Silicon Valley or NYC bubble, developers in big cities in developed countries are approaching US and European salaries and they are increasing quickly. Well, truth be told they're already surpassed us. If you want cheaper, you might as well go to Spain or Italy or even France.

bilbo0s 7y ago
That's not really true man. I've worked with devs from Argentina and Ghana, and let's just say we were all surprised at how much the managers at my company were paying to those consulting firms. Think devs getting USD350 to USD1500 per month while I knew for a fact that USD50 to USD225 per hour was being paid out. I think a lot of devs in the West would be almost shocked at the amount of money devs make in other places.

cosmodisk 7y ago

What differentiates US (most big software names come from there) from the rest of the world is their ability to sell. There are already enough countries on this planet that can produce high quality software that could be sold as hot buns.What most of those countries don't have is the huge VC industry+ tons of people who know how and who to sell be it B2B or B2C. This, however is changing slowly and you can expect much more level field over the next 10-15 years.

pm90 7y ago
This is not accurate at all. What really differentiates the US is: * fucking largest economy by far as your domestic market ie no import duties or import/export taxes * truly massive investment by Government and Private sector into CS research * high tech economy focused mostly on services which demands all tools it can get to improve business processes * high disposable income via financial instruments for cheap debt (also less taxes than most developed countries) * largest talent pool of Universities that keeps bringing in the best and brightest across the world The ability to sell is far far less important than the systemic reasons listed above that give the US an incredible edge in the software industry.

inertiatic 7y ago

Most of the tech behemoths already have offices around the world. Maybe these offices are just following the great standards set by the people working at the HQ. Even then, there are a bunch of companies that have their engineering based in other countries. I personally worked for a few companies that are major player in their fields (although not unicorns) that have offices here in the Greece. Most of these companies have one thing in common, the leadership, everyone at the C level, work and live in the US. In fact, the companies I worked for had HQs in the SV. I don't think SV has a significantly better talent pool. My anecdote is that my local team has had more than a couple laughs looking at code written by our SV-based colleagues. But I think that building your business there certainly gives you a huge advantage. Your engineering doesn't need to be there.

bilbo0s 7y ago
>Your engineering doesn't need to be there. and I'm fair certain engineering won't be there in the future. Probably not even in the US. Just the research-y type stuff might stay here longer to be close to the universities. But assuming the market is left to its own development, ginormous US based engineering teams will likely go the way of the Dodo bird in the future.
- inertiatic 7y ago
  I don't know if I can make an informed prediction, but even if I could I don't think I would be that extreme. I would expect salaries to fall but I wouldn't expect software development to move entirely. It should make sense for a lot of companies to pay a premium to keep their workforce closer to their leadership.
- phonebanshee 7y ago
  People have been saying variations of this for several decades. So far they've been wrong.
  - pm90 7y ago
    Perhaps what’s really missing is some good videoconferencing mechanism.

SamuelAdams 7y ago

Since no one answered your question the best thing to do is become very good at working with end users. BA work isn't the same as software development but it is harder to outsource. You usually need someone on site who can effectively communicate with project stakeholders to capture requirements and write them down in a way that developers at these shops can pick them up and run with. That is a much needed skill, I've seen many BA's make 100k+ at non FAANG companies in cities where the median household income is 45k.

PeterisP 7y ago

The value that the role produces, and the growing demand for even more software. Currently the companies can make a profit paying the current high salaries and selling products, and they need more developers - so one can expect that as the price difference erodes, it will mostly be by the salaries of the Asian developers being brought up to current first world levels, not the first world salaries (for software - less so for some other jobs) being brought down to the global average.