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I work remotely from Europe for a North American company, so here's my two cents on this topic: Having cost as the reason for going with remote devs is a very

by cbg0 7y ago

I work remotely from Europe for a North American company, so here's my two cents on this topic: Having cost as the reason for going with remote devs is a very bad idea in my opinion, and it should only be seen as an added benefit. You don't want to hire cheap devs because they usually suck, and great developers will cost you quite a bit regardless of where they live. While it may be difficult to compete with the huge corporations in places like SF, NYC, Seattle, where these competing corporations offer huge salaries, great benefits and have brand recognition, there's quite a lot of value to be had with setting up shop somewhere remote, where there's lower competition and where you can offer above average salaries to attract top talent in the area. Ultimately, every company says that they only hire the best, but unless you're paying top dollar in your area, you're most likely not hiring only the best. I believe that most good developers will want to be part of a stable company that is actually building amazing things, instead of being part of an outsourcing company where they get passed around from project to project, and their resume will perpetually read "Software Engineer at Outsourcing Company Ltd." - most would trade that in a heartbeat for one of the FAANG companies. If you want to have the best kind of success with remote devs, don't outsource, invest a bit more and set up an actual office and hire the people directly, people that want to have a career with your company, and not a contract for an unknown period of time, which they likely won't be able to put on their resume.

numbsafari 7y ago
I think this is a really valuable perspective. Would be curious to hear from more folks on “the other side” about their experiences. I’ve often considered doing the expat thing and trying to work in or setup such a shop.
- kavalg 7y ago
  My experience is that it is pretty easy to find a remote job as a single developer/freelancer, but a lot harder to find a decent project for a small, well-knit team. I now live in Eastern Europe (EU) and I easily find offers at EUR 450-600 / day for consulting gigs (e.g. on-site + remote work). However, I often struggle to find a project for a team of 3 Java/JavaScript/Python/PHP developers, event at rates as low as EUR 250 / day. I guess lots of recruiters are only interested in hiring individual contractors, but not teams.
  - vlttnv 7y ago
    I am currently trying to transition to remote work/consulting and was wondering can you share some details on how you find offers like that. I am also based in Eastern Europe. Do you have an email I can ping you at?
    - kavalg 7y ago
      Sure. I've just send you a linkedin invitation.
  - dep_b 7y ago
    Interesting, in my experience getting a team that really works together instead of a bunch of people cobbled together with varying levels of competence and opinions on what's good is what is really puts a drag on a project. Basically: the 10x developer is the same developer unhindered by people that build sloppy shit or broken procedures that need to be integrated.
    - kavalg 7y ago
      Yes, a team is indeed more valuable than a bunch of people, but there isn't an abundance of marketplaces to sell a team. Just the usual crowd of recruiters that are looking to fill up individual positions and take their commission. Virtually all team projects that I've found so far have gone through a friend recommendation and direct contact with the customer. Never through a recruiter. If you guys know better way to market a small team of devs at EUR 250-300 day I'd be glad to hear about it.
  - burntoutfire 7y ago
    Managers want to expand their little empires, by adding people who report to them. They're less excited about spending their precious budget on a service from an external vendor. There are exceptions, such as managers who learned that managing software development is HARD and want to outsource the headaches (with the naive hope that the outside company will do a better job).
    - 7y ago

by cbg0 7y ago

numbsafari 7y ago

I think this is a really valuable perspective. Would be curious to hear from more folks on “the other side” about their experiences. I’ve often considered doing the expat thing and trying to work in or setup such a shop.

kavalg 7y ago
My experience is that it is pretty easy to find a remote job as a single developer/freelancer, but a lot harder to find a decent project for a small, well-knit team. I now live in Eastern Europe (EU) and I easily find offers at EUR 450-600 / day for consulting gigs (e.g. on-site + remote work). However, I often struggle to find a project for a team of 3 Java/JavaScript/Python/PHP developers, event at rates as low as EUR 250 / day. I guess lots of recruiters are only interested in hiring individual contractors, but not teams.
- vlttnv 7y ago
  I am currently trying to transition to remote work/consulting and was wondering can you share some details on how you find offers like that. I am also based in Eastern Europe. Do you have an email I can ping you at?
  - kavalg 7y ago
    Sure. I've just send you a linkedin invitation.
- dep_b 7y ago
  Interesting, in my experience getting a team that really works together instead of a bunch of people cobbled together with varying levels of competence and opinions on what's good is what is really puts a drag on a project. Basically: the 10x developer is the same developer unhindered by people that build sloppy shit or broken procedures that need to be integrated.
  - kavalg 7y ago
    Yes, a team is indeed more valuable than a bunch of people, but there isn't an abundance of marketplaces to sell a team. Just the usual crowd of recruiters that are looking to fill up individual positions and take their commission. Virtually all team projects that I've found so far have gone through a friend recommendation and direct contact with the customer. Never through a recruiter. If you guys know better way to market a small team of devs at EUR 250-300 day I'd be glad to hear about it.
- burntoutfire 7y ago
  Managers want to expand their little empires, by adding people who report to them. They're less excited about spending their precious budget on a service from an external vendor. There are exceptions, such as managers who learned that managing software development is HARD and want to outsource the headaches (with the naive hope that the outside company will do a better job).
  - 7y ago