4 ms·

I'm "curious" how things will work out in the US when people 1) show up to work at, say, McDonalds even if they're not feeling great. 2) wait until the last m

by davidw 7y ago

I'm "curious" how things will work out in the US when people 1) show up to work at, say, McDonalds even if they're not feeling great. 2) wait until the last minute to seek health care because it's expensive And by "curious" I mean "extremely worried". Edit: I'm certainly no expert though; it'd be nice to consider some actual data about how these things spread (is the flu a similar enough model?). Maybe the above points don't really matter that much. I'm still worried in any event. Several relatives-in-law live in one of the affected areas of Italy.

paultopia 7y ago
Yes, THIS. We're already seeing the U.S.'s fucked system causing consequences, as in this story of a Miami man getting several thousands of dollars in medical bills for getting tested[1]. We have a system where people are too terrified of their insurers to get tested or get medical care, and too terrified of their employers to stay home from work. It's a recipe for disaster in a pandemic. Incidentally, the fact that authoritarianism and extreme predatory capitalism cause the same kind of fear that impedes things like public health might also suggest that maybe authoritarianism and extreme predatory capitalism are pretty similar, as folks like Elizabeth Anderson[2] and I[3] have argued... [1] https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240476806.html?__twitter_impression=true https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article24047680... [2] https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/private-government https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/pr... [3] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08913811.2014.957021 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08913811.2014.9... (paywalled sorry)
dcolkitt 7y ago
> 1) show up to work at, say, McDonalds even if they're not feeling great. The US generally has extremely strict guidelines regarding food safety and hygiene. In terms of food safety, America ranks above all but the Nordic countries.[1] I can assure you that American restaurants absolutely will not tolerate a food worker with an active upper respiratory infection. If anything US restaurants are more likely to order a worker to stay home, because unlike Europe they generally don't have to give hourly workers paid sick time. [1] https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index
- dragontamer 7y ago
  While this is true, what worries me about Coronavirus is its weeks-long incubation period, where you can spread the virus even without any symptoms attached. The obvious "dude is coughing / sneezing" case simply doesn't apply to Coronavirus. It can spread long before you show any symptoms. ----------- There are even cases where people are passing the virus on without ever actually getting, or feeling, sick. https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-... Coronavirus is deadly enough to kill some people, but weak enough that some people's immune system represses it entirely. In some ways, something like Ebola is easier to control. Because everyone who gets sick with Ebola actually shows symptoms (because Ebola is so deadly).
  - RandomInteger4 7y ago
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAaaaaa ... deep inhale eheh ... oh wait, you seriously believe that?
  - davidw 7y ago
    As above/below though, that goes for pretty much any country and if it's the biggest factor in contagion, then maybe we won't see large differences between wealthy-ish countries.
- davidw 7y ago
  Fair enough. It's just an example though - there are a lot of other low-wage industries with lots of public contact, and people may try and hide their illness if they need the work. And of course people may be contagious before exhibiting a lot of symptoms, but that's certainly not US specific.
- pessimizer 7y ago
  As a person who has worked in American restaurants, I can assure you that this is not true.
- Ancalagon 7y ago
  This is false. Ask any person working in a tip-based position to give up working for 2 weeks because of a sickness and they will more than likely say they cannot afford to (because they will fail to make rent).
throwaway5752 7y ago
Not sure to what degree you follow the markets, but ^SPX is down over 3%. A number of high level pandemic expert positions have been eliminated in this administration, and I think people are starting to have doubts about domestic preparedness in the US.
ashildr 7y ago
It will be fine, Homeland Ken will do a heck of a job until it is over in April. See, he‘s getting experts involved, already: https://mobile.twitter.com/HomelandKen/status/1232027306732015618 https://mobile.twitter.com/HomelandKen/status/12320273067320...
thinkingemote 7y ago
Apparently in China they will treat corvid for free, but if you just have regular pneumonia or the flu then you have to pay.

by davidw 7y ago

paultopia 7y ago

Yes, THIS. We're already seeing the U.S.'s fucked system causing consequences, as in this story of a Miami man getting several thousands of dollars in medical bills for getting tested[1]. We have a system where people are too terrified of their insurers to get tested or get medical care, and too terrified of their employers to stay home from work. It's a recipe for disaster in a pandemic. Incidentally, the fact that authoritarianism and extreme predatory capitalism cause the same kind of fear that impedes things like public health might also suggest that maybe authoritarianism and extreme predatory capitalism are pretty similar, as folks like Elizabeth Anderson[2] and I[3] have argued... [1] https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240476806.html?__twitter_impression=true https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article24047680... [2] https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/private-government https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/pr... [3] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08913811.2014.957021 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08913811.2014.9... (paywalled sorry)

dcolkitt 7y ago

> 1) show up to work at, say, McDonalds even if they're not feeling great. The US generally has extremely strict guidelines regarding food safety and hygiene. In terms of food safety, America ranks above all but the Nordic countries.[1] I can assure you that American restaurants absolutely will not tolerate a food worker with an active upper respiratory infection. If anything US restaurants are more likely to order a worker to stay home, because unlike Europe they generally don't have to give hourly workers paid sick time. [1] https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index

dragontamer 7y ago
While this is true, what worries me about Coronavirus is its weeks-long incubation period, where you can spread the virus even without any symptoms attached. The obvious "dude is coughing / sneezing" case simply doesn't apply to Coronavirus. It can spread long before you show any symptoms. ----------- There are even cases where people are passing the virus on without ever actually getting, or feeling, sick. https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-... Coronavirus is deadly enough to kill some people, but weak enough that some people's immune system represses it entirely. In some ways, something like Ebola is easier to control. Because everyone who gets sick with Ebola actually shows symptoms (because Ebola is so deadly).
- RandomInteger4 7y ago
  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAaaaaa ... deep inhale eheh ... oh wait, you seriously believe that?
- davidw 7y ago
  As above/below though, that goes for pretty much any country and if it's the biggest factor in contagion, then maybe we won't see large differences between wealthy-ish countries.
davidw 7y ago
Fair enough. It's just an example though - there are a lot of other low-wage industries with lots of public contact, and people may try and hide their illness if they need the work. And of course people may be contagious before exhibiting a lot of symptoms, but that's certainly not US specific.
pessimizer 7y ago
As a person who has worked in American restaurants, I can assure you that this is not true.
Ancalagon 7y ago
This is false. Ask any person working in a tip-based position to give up working for 2 weeks because of a sickness and they will more than likely say they cannot afford to (because they will fail to make rent).

throwaway5752 7y ago

Not sure to what degree you follow the markets, but ^SPX is down over 3%. A number of high level pandemic expert positions have been eliminated in this administration, and I think people are starting to have doubts about domestic preparedness in the US.

ashildr 7y ago

It will be fine, Homeland Ken will do a heck of a job until it is over in April. See, he‘s getting experts involved, already: https://mobile.twitter.com/HomelandKen/status/1232027306732015618 https://mobile.twitter.com/HomelandKen/status/12320273067320...

thinkingemote 7y ago

Apparently in China they will treat corvid for free, but if you just have regular pneumonia or the flu then you have to pay.