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Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. And perhaps this'll be the first program to survive the trolls

Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. And perhaps this'll be the first program to survive the trolls and nay-sayers who will find the smallest niche failures and sspout the "If ANYONE falls through the cracks it's a FAILURE!"

claudeganon 7y ago
It’s not UBI if you means test a lot of the poor out of it, which this bill actually does. Instead, it’s just going to push them even further away from things like stable housing, as landlords jack up rents to eat it all up.
- hedora 7y ago
  Also, it’s funded by a regressive tax. Also, my reading says everyone’s rent (edit: and child care!) is going up 10%, but hopefully, I’m wrong: > It is the intent of the Legislature to fund the CalUBI Program with a value-added tax of 10 percent on goods and services, except medicine, medical supplies and equipment, educational materials, including textbooks, tuition or fees for education, food, groceries, and clothing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
vorpalhex 7y ago
I think the issue is usually the money isn't enough to be meaningfully helpful and the cost of running the program is too high to be sustainable. However, I think another real world test to join the others is fine. You don't know the result until you do the experiment.
- stazz1 7y ago
  >You don't know the result until you do the experiment. Same reason you don't jump off a building to test gravity. There are better ways to test than irreparably derailing an economy by +not closing the inequality gap and +causing spikes of inflation any time you dish out money, proportional to how much you dish out
asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
Even in CA this has no chance of passing, right? I mean they couldn't even pass the mass transit zoning changes. CA may be relatively liberal but I don't think it has the appetite for this level of increased taxation and spending.
- bun_at_work 7y ago
  The thing is CA has a system where legislation can be passed by popular vote. This has it's up and down sides, but anything can pass in CA with enough public support.
reaperducer 7y ago
Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. Finland did a real world UBI test. Unless you don't consider Finland part of the "real world."
- dx87 7y ago
  Didn't Finland also tell the recipients ahead of time when the test would be ending? I know if I was told, "We're doing a UBI test for 2 years, you'll get 1k a month, no strings attached", I wouldn't quick working. I'd just pocket the free money since I know it's going to dry up at at a fixed date. If they said "Here's 1k a month forever, no strings attached", I'd sell my house and move to a low CoLA area where I could live off the 1k and persue other interests.
deep-root 7y ago
Wikipedia has a list of various basic income pilot programs reaching back to the 1960s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots

claudeganon 7y ago

It’s not UBI if you means test a lot of the poor out of it, which this bill actually does. Instead, it’s just going to push them even further away from things like stable housing, as landlords jack up rents to eat it all up.

hedora 7y ago
Also, it’s funded by a regressive tax. Also, my reading says everyone’s rent (edit: and child care!) is going up 10%, but hopefully, I’m wrong: > It is the intent of the Legislature to fund the CalUBI Program with a value-added tax of 10 percent on goods and services, except medicine, medical supplies and equipment, educational materials, including textbooks, tuition or fees for education, food, groceries, and clothing.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

vorpalhex 7y ago

I think the issue is usually the money isn't enough to be meaningfully helpful and the cost of running the program is too high to be sustainable. However, I think another real world test to join the others is fine. You don't know the result until you do the experiment.

stazz1 7y ago
>You don't know the result until you do the experiment. Same reason you don't jump off a building to test gravity. There are better ways to test than irreparably derailing an economy by +not closing the inequality gap and +causing spikes of inflation any time you dish out money, proportional to how much you dish out

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago

Even in CA this has no chance of passing, right? I mean they couldn't even pass the mass transit zoning changes. CA may be relatively liberal but I don't think it has the appetite for this level of increased taxation and spending.

bun_at_work 7y ago
The thing is CA has a system where legislation can be passed by popular vote. This has it's up and down sides, but anything can pass in CA with enough public support.

reaperducer 7y ago

Good - let's have a real world test and see whether there is something behind UBI as a concept. Finland did a real world UBI test. Unless you don't consider Finland part of the "real world."

dx87 7y ago
Didn't Finland also tell the recipients ahead of time when the test would be ending? I know if I was told, "We're doing a UBI test for 2 years, you'll get 1k a month, no strings attached", I wouldn't quick working. I'd just pocket the free money since I know it's going to dry up at at a fixed date. If they said "Here's 1k a month forever, no strings attached", I'd sell my house and move to a low CoLA area where I could live off the 1k and persue other interests.

deep-root 7y ago

Wikipedia has a list of various basic income pilot programs reaching back to the 1960s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots