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They should use Threema [1] which is based in Switzerland. Even though Switzerland is not in the EU it's not as bad as the US (from an EU standpoint) and since

They should use Threema [1] which is based in Switzerland. Even though Switzerland is not in the EU it's not as bad as the US (from an EU standpoint) and since Switzerland is heavily dependent on the EU the likelihood of them spying on the EU is pretty small. Apart from that Threema publishes a transparency report [2] where they list all requests from governmental authorities. [1]: https://threema.ch/en https://threema.ch/en [2]: https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport Edit: Formatting

fvdessen 7y ago
Have you heard of Crypto AG ? It's a Swiss Company setup by the CIA that provided intentionally flawed crypto to a long list of European governments.
sschueller 7y ago
Threema is not safe either and its audit is years old. The BÜPF law in Switzerland requires any company that has more than 100 request per year to retain data. Threema reached this in 2019. "Der Dienst ÜPF erklärt eine Anbieterin abgeleiteter Kommunikationsdienste als eine mit weitergehenden Auskunftspflichten (Art. 22 Abs. 4 BÜPF), wenn sie eine der nachstehenden Grössen erreicht hat: a. 100 Auskunftsgesuche in den letzten 12 Monaten (Stichtag: 30. Juni); b. Jahresumsatz in der Schweiz von 100 Millionen Franken in zwei aufeinander folgenden Geschäftsjahren, wobei ein grosser Teil ihrer Geschäftstätigkeit im Anbieten abgeleiteter Kommunikationsdienste besteht, und 5000 Teilnehmende, die die Dienste der Anbieterin in Anspruch nehmen." [1] [1] https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20172173/index.html# https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20172173/...
deleted 7y ago
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maqp 7y ago
1. The last time people bought non-transparent crypto from Switzerland it turned out decades later the company was secretly owned by the CIA. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-cia-bnd-germany-intelligence-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-ci... 2. Threema is proprietary around open source library. It's trivial to add a backoor after any audit, and it's trivial to lie in your transparency report. Open source stuff is _obvious_ choice. There's no reason to open entire source for Threema (no ~one's making a profit copying other messengers) unless they're hiding something.

fvdessen 7y ago

Have you heard of Crypto AG ? It's a Swiss Company setup by the CIA that provided intentionally flawed crypto to a long list of European governments.

sschueller 7y ago

Threema is not safe either and its audit is years old. The BÜPF law in Switzerland requires any company that has more than 100 request per year to retain data. Threema reached this in 2019. "Der Dienst ÜPF erklärt eine Anbieterin abgeleiteter Kommunikationsdienste als eine mit weitergehenden Auskunftspflichten (Art. 22 Abs. 4 BÜPF), wenn sie eine der nachstehenden Grössen erreicht hat: a. 100 Auskunftsgesuche in den letzten 12 Monaten (Stichtag: 30. Juni); b. Jahresumsatz in der Schweiz von 100 Millionen Franken in zwei aufeinander folgenden Geschäftsjahren, wobei ein grosser Teil ihrer Geschäftstätigkeit im Anbieten abgeleiteter Kommunikationsdienste besteht, und 5000 Teilnehmende, die die Dienste der Anbieterin in Anspruch nehmen." [1] [1] https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20172173/index.html# https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20172173/...

deleted 7y ago

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maqp 7y ago

1. The last time people bought non-transparent crypto from Switzerland it turned out decades later the company was secretly owned by the CIA. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-cia-bnd-germany-intelligence-report https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/11/crypto-ag-ci... 2. Threema is proprietary around open source library. It's trivial to add a backoor after any audit, and it's trivial to lie in your transparency report. Open source stuff is _obvious_ choice. There's no reason to open entire source for Threema (no ~one's making a profit copying other messengers) unless they're hiding something.