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In previous discussion here on HN, Wire was claimed to be more secure than Signal (something related to initial key sharing?) I don't understand why there's so

by blunte 7y ago

In previous discussion here on HN, Wire was claimed to be more secure than Signal (something related to initial key sharing?) I don't understand why there's so much publicity behind Signal, and Wire is never mentioned. I've been using Wire for years, and it doesn't require a phone number to setup.

literallycancer 7y ago
Wire is owned by a US company now: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/messaging-app-wire-confirms-8-2m-raise-responds-to-privacy-concerns-after-moving-holding-company-to-the-us/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/messaging-app-wire-confirm...
- O1111OOO 7y ago
  From the linked techcrunch article: "new CEO, who joined late 2017, didn’t really care about the free users ... : ‘If Wire works for you, fine, but we don’t really care about what you think about our ownership or funding structure as our corporate clients care about security, not about privacy.'” I honestly don't see how privacy and security do not go hand-in-hand. From Wikipedia[0]: "Wire stores unencrypted meta data for every user" ... "Wire changed its privacy policy from "sharing user data when required by law" to "sharing user data when necessary"." ... "Wire did not inform its users about this policy change, which makes it even more suspicious, considering that it is about a tool that promises privacy to its users." I use to speak highly of Wire a few years ago but have not used their programs in a while. It's pretty clear that non-corporate users and their expectations of privacy are of little importance to them. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_(software)#Critcism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_(software)#Critcism
divanvisagie 7y ago
Personally, I'm suspicious of Signal because of its publicity, smells like a pot of honey.
- groovybits 7y ago
  The code is open, if you'd like to decide for yourself: https://github.com/signalapp https://github.com/signalapp
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- drummer 7y ago
  It is definitely a pot of honey now for intelligence agencies who are going to crack down on it to break it since everyone is moving to it now.
  - frayesto 7y ago
    Still protected by the math? All the three-letter agencies already knew they had these tools available, GPG, veracrypt, Signal, etc. Now it's just impossible for governments to whole sale eavesdrop on conversations. If they want access it now has to be targetted, and most likely device specific which is harder.
    - drummer 7y ago
      Sure but the math alone won't protect it. I'm thinking more of bugs in the program such as buffer overflows etc. that can potentially be exploited. They don't even have to exist in the Signal code itself but one of the libraries they use. Everything will be scrutinized increasingly heavily now. Moxie had better preemptively order up some new code reviews.
throwinawaysoon 7y ago
We started using Wire before signal few years ago. it was light and we loved the dark interface. Then it got bulky and my Android phone killed it too often to be any useful. Then we switched to signal, it was bare bones, but it was light and didn't miss notifications
balladeer 7y ago
One reason I stopped using was it turned from delightfully light to painfully bulky. Also its deliberate transition (I’m sure they had reasons for that) from a simple chat app to more Slack like.

by blunte 7y ago

literallycancer 7y ago

Wire is owned by a US company now: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/messaging-app-wire-confirms-8-2m-raise-responds-to-privacy-concerns-after-moving-holding-company-to-the-us/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/messaging-app-wire-confirm...

O1111OOO 7y ago
From the linked techcrunch article: "new CEO, who joined late 2017, didn’t really care about the free users ... : ‘If Wire works for you, fine, but we don’t really care about what you think about our ownership or funding structure as our corporate clients care about security, not about privacy.'” I honestly don't see how privacy and security do not go hand-in-hand. From Wikipedia[0]: "Wire stores unencrypted meta data for every user" ... "Wire changed its privacy policy from "sharing user data when required by law" to "sharing user data when necessary"." ... "Wire did not inform its users about this policy change, which makes it even more suspicious, considering that it is about a tool that promises privacy to its users." I use to speak highly of Wire a few years ago but have not used their programs in a while. It's pretty clear that non-corporate users and their expectations of privacy are of little importance to them. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_(software)#Critcism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_(software)#Critcism

divanvisagie 7y ago

Personally, I'm suspicious of Signal because of its publicity, smells like a pot of honey.

groovybits 7y ago
The code is open, if you'd like to decide for yourself: https://github.com/signalapp https://github.com/signalapp
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
drummer 7y ago
It is definitely a pot of honey now for intelligence agencies who are going to crack down on it to break it since everyone is moving to it now.
- frayesto 7y ago
  Still protected by the math? All the three-letter agencies already knew they had these tools available, GPG, veracrypt, Signal, etc. Now it's just impossible for governments to whole sale eavesdrop on conversations. If they want access it now has to be targetted, and most likely device specific which is harder.
  - drummer 7y ago
    Sure but the math alone won't protect it. I'm thinking more of bugs in the program such as buffer overflows etc. that can potentially be exploited. They don't even have to exist in the Signal code itself but one of the libraries they use. Everything will be scrutinized increasingly heavily now. Moxie had better preemptively order up some new code reviews.

throwinawaysoon 7y ago

We started using Wire before signal few years ago. it was light and we loved the dark interface. Then it got bulky and my Android phone killed it too often to be any useful. Then we switched to signal, it was bare bones, but it was light and didn't miss notifications

balladeer 7y ago

One reason I stopped using was it turned from delightfully light to painfully bulky. Also its deliberate transition (I’m sure they had reasons for that) from a simple chat app to more Slack like.