5 ms·

Is there no open source or European alternative? Just keep relying on some Californian dude that insist i give him my and my friends phone numbers? And harass

by nico_h 7y ago

Is there no open source or European alternative? Just keep relying on some Californian dude that insist i give him my and my friends phone numbers? And harass me so i give him more info to “personalize my profile” !?

bluecmd 7y ago
Signal is open source
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
wire: https://github.com/wireapp https://github.com/wireapp session (very bleeding-edge p2p signal fork) https://github.com/Loki-project https://github.com/Loki-project / https://getsession.org/ https://getsession.org/
icebraining 7y ago
How does he harass you?!
- nico_h 7y ago
  - I added a first name to my conversation contacts, but it keeps showing the phone number. In the app and in notifications. - There is a fixed pop under at the bottom of the screen asking me to confirm my profile name, with “Get Started” or “remind me later” (which is apparently every time i come back to the app), and no “never“ option. I had already put a first name but that’s not good enough. Had to do it again to confirm i don’t want to share a last name with him / them. - why does he care about the distinction between a “first name” (mandatory) and “Last Name” (optional) -> Only the user should care about the name. => Why should the app / he / them get access to my contacts list to update a contact name? I’m perfectly willing to have duplicate contacts siloed in a “secure messaging app”. Also, could someone explain why the app need phone numbers ? They only send some initial token over SMS, which can be spoofed.
- Avamander 7y ago
  The phone number deregister flow is such a dark pattern it's incredible. Not something a chat app should ever do to be reputable.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    How so?
    - Avamander 7y ago
      If you uninstall the app it has a seven day forced delay for releasing your phone number, it isn't disclosed anywhere and the form just silently errors out when seven days haven't passed.
stingraycharles 7y ago
This is the “perfect solution fallacy”; just because Signal doesn’t check all the boxes, doesn’t mean it isn’t an improvement over the existing situation. Secure communications is the immediate goal, nation sovereignty secondary. Looking at the other comments, the European alternatives don’t look very secure, so it looks like they prioritized security here.
- feanaro 7y ago
  > Looking at the other comments, the European alternatives don’t look very secure, so it looks like they prioritized security here. In what way are Wire and Matrix not very secure, though?
- Dahoon 7y ago
  To be secure step one should always be "Pick a service not controlled by your adversaries' law or intelligence community". Skipping step one has nothing to do with a perfect solution fallacy but is more like "Pissing in your pants for warmth". A half-broken service would be better than one under US control as the US is the one doing the most snooping on EU. Getting everyone to switch if Signal ever stops being secure would be way harder than to pick a better service now and help secure it. Matrix would be a better choice for one. Saying EU services isn't secure is hyperbole.
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
wire.com is a good option. Open source, chats, calls, video calls, web app, phone app, etc.
- orr721 7y ago
  wire.com moved HQ to US and “Individual consumers are no longer part of Wire’s strategy.”
dependenttypes 7y ago
Well they could use xmpp with omemo.
feanaro 7y ago
There's Matrix (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/).
upofadown 7y ago
There is always boring old XMPP as commonly used for corporate stuff. But then they would have to try to explain to people what a protocol is. That ends up being a problem with IM stuff where people think of the client as the service.
neuronic 7y ago
There is Threema. Does it have drawbacks?
throwaway1590 7y ago
There are, but it should be simple enough for non-techies (politicians) to understand. They could use Threema (Swiss) or Wire, but either-way it's better than plain SMS.
jeltz 7y ago
There is Matrix, which is as far as I know backed by a British company.

by nico_h 7y ago

bluecmd 7y ago

Signal is open source

DyslexicAtheist 7y ago

wire: https://github.com/wireapp https://github.com/wireapp session (very bleeding-edge p2p signal fork) https://github.com/Loki-project https://github.com/Loki-project / https://getsession.org/ https://getsession.org/

icebraining 7y ago

How does he harass you?!

nico_h 7y ago
- I added a first name to my conversation contacts, but it keeps showing the phone number. In the app and in notifications. - There is a fixed pop under at the bottom of the screen asking me to confirm my profile name, with “Get Started” or “remind me later” (which is apparently every time i come back to the app), and no “never“ option. I had already put a first name but that’s not good enough. Had to do it again to confirm i don’t want to share a last name with him / them. - why does he care about the distinction between a “first name” (mandatory) and “Last Name” (optional) -> Only the user should care about the name. => Why should the app / he / them get access to my contacts list to update a contact name? I’m perfectly willing to have duplicate contacts siloed in a “secure messaging app”. Also, could someone explain why the app need phone numbers ? They only send some initial token over SMS, which can be spoofed.
Avamander 7y ago
The phone number deregister flow is such a dark pattern it's incredible. Not something a chat app should ever do to be reputable.
- icebraining 7y ago
  How so?
  - Avamander 7y ago
    If you uninstall the app it has a seven day forced delay for releasing your phone number, it isn't disclosed anywhere and the form just silently errors out when seven days haven't passed.

stingraycharles 7y ago

This is the “perfect solution fallacy”; just because Signal doesn’t check all the boxes, doesn’t mean it isn’t an improvement over the existing situation. Secure communications is the immediate goal, nation sovereignty secondary. Looking at the other comments, the European alternatives don’t look very secure, so it looks like they prioritized security here.

feanaro 7y ago
> Looking at the other comments, the European alternatives don’t look very secure, so it looks like they prioritized security here. In what way are Wire and Matrix not very secure, though?
Dahoon 7y ago
To be secure step one should always be "Pick a service not controlled by your adversaries' law or intelligence community". Skipping step one has nothing to do with a perfect solution fallacy but is more like "Pissing in your pants for warmth". A half-broken service would be better than one under US control as the US is the one doing the most snooping on EU. Getting everyone to switch if Signal ever stops being secure would be way harder than to pick a better service now and help secure it. Matrix would be a better choice for one. Saying EU services isn't secure is hyperbole.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

wire.com is a good option. Open source, chats, calls, video calls, web app, phone app, etc.

orr721 7y ago
wire.com moved HQ to US and “Individual consumers are no longer part of Wire’s strategy.”

dependenttypes 7y ago

Well they could use xmpp with omemo.

feanaro 7y ago

There's Matrix (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/).

upofadown 7y ago

There is always boring old XMPP as commonly used for corporate stuff. But then they would have to try to explain to people what a protocol is. That ends up being a problem with IM stuff where people think of the client as the service.

neuronic 7y ago

There is Threema. Does it have drawbacks?

throwaway1590 7y ago

There are, but it should be simple enough for non-techies (politicians) to understand. They could use Threema (Swiss) or Wire, but either-way it's better than plain SMS.

jeltz 7y ago

There is Matrix, which is as far as I know backed by a British company.