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I do not understand the logic of excluding people who already receive social support benefits like Medicaid, as they are the ones who would benefit the most
by kingkawn 7y ago
I do not understand the logic of excluding people who already receive social support benefits like Medicaid, as they are the ones who would benefit the most
- RaptorJ 7y agoWell I think you've identified the 'logic' exactly -- use UBI as a wedge to dismantle the welfare state.
- cmendel 7y ago...You think that the policy of "Give everyone 1000 USD per month" is designed to dismantle? the welfare state?
- joshuamorton 7y agoAlso it's funded with a VAT, not an income tax, so it very strongly resembles a FairTax plan which is...strange. Edit: "FairTax plan", not a "fair tax plan", apparently people on HN are less immediately familiar with the term than I expected.
- ajmurmann 7y agoIsn't VAT a regressive tax, since poor usually have to spend a lot larger percentage of their income than the wealthy? I thought that was generally considered less fair than a progressive tax?
- sgc 7y agoYes.
- numpad0 7y agoAgreed but fair is nuanced
- BurningFrog 7y agoWell... The good thing with a VAT is that it's very simple and hard to evade. Income taxes that are progressive on paper can become anything but with enough accountants massaging your accounts. But with a VAT, everyone just pays it. And those accountants can do productive work that benefits society.
- maxlybbert 7y agoI think the original comment should have been “sounds like a FairTax ( http://fairtax.org/ http://fairtax.org/ ) system.” The FairTax is a libertarian proposal for a national VAT or sales tax, but — to reduce the regressive effects of a sales tax — to send everybody a “pre-bate” (money equal to the tax a person would expect to pay for food, rent, etc.). I don’t know if the California bill is actually based on the FairTax proposal, but it does have both components, even if it uses different names.
- joshuamorton 7y agoYes, I was specifically talking about the FairTax scheme, which is a libertarian and oft-considered regressive tax scheme. Hence my bafflement at it being pushed by a seemingly liberal-for-california state legislator.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoFirst it's not happening. I can promise the moon, just elect me. But the idea is that everyone gets $xxx a month, and if you get SS you already have something.
- numpad0 7y agoI don’t either but I’ve heard the purpose of BI is to roll up every benefits into a single unconditional monetary compensation. If so, sort of logical. Whether BI is right or logical is probably an another discussion.
- pkaye 7y agoEven Social Security?
- pmoriarty 7y agoI also don't get how they can call it "Universal" when not everybody gets it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- rahimnathwani 7y agoPerhaps they intend UBI to be a substitute for existing benefits, rather than an add-on?
- mehrdadn 7y agoBut they get affected by the taxes? So they'd be worse off than they are now?
- rahimnathwani 7y agoThe Medicaid income threshold is something like $1300/month. If you're earning that much, then the amount going on non-medical, non-food, non-rent stuff is probably under $500/month. Assuming you're currently paying sales tax on those purchases at ~7%, and this proposal increases that to 10%, you're paying an extra $15/month in tax. (This was a quick calculation based on info from the internet, so I could be mistaken.) BUT if you can buy medical insurance for less than $1000/month, then can you give up the Medicaid benefit and have the $1000 instead? If so, as long as medical insurance doesn't cost more than $985/month, you're better off with the higher tax and the $1000, than with the Medicaid benefit.
- nodesocket 7y agoI don't understand the logic of instead just providing a $12,000 California tax deduction or lowering CA sales tax. Moot to me, I left CA for Tennessee two years ago. I prefer to just save way more money by not paying any state income taxes.
- refurb 7y agoI would assume it because the people who need it the most don’t pay any state income tax or spend enough on sales taxes. You could do it through a tax credit however.
- occamrazor 7y agoThe tax credit however is paid out once a year. Regular monthly payment mayhelp budgeting and disincentivize impulsive large expenses.