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We also managed to start mass-producing canned goods with effectively indefinite shelf lives at some point, and figured out freeze drying, and figured out nitro

by Reelin 7y ago

We also managed to start mass-producing canned goods with effectively indefinite shelf lives at some point, and figured out freeze drying, and figured out nitrogen flushing, and industrial autoclaves became standard, and ...

germinalphrase 7y ago
I would love to read about the actual safe shelf life of common foods. Being from a diary region of the. US, I have no faith in the stamped on dates
- wbl 7y ago
  Far longer then the dates! Food spoilage is often aesthetic before it becomes a health risk.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  You should be able to eat most canned goods multiple years after whatever their date is. A good rule of thumb is if the can isn't deformed as a result of the volume of its contents changing as result of a chemical reaction then you're good to go. As far as rules of thumb go this is a pretty good one because a chemical reaction is a necessary perquisite of food spoilage (if the food doesn't change it doesn't spoil) and said chemical reaction will almost certainly alter the volume (at STP) of the contents of the can thereby deforming it. You can also use your nose which has millions of years of incremental improvement making it good at telling you what is and isn't edible.
- darkarmani 7y ago
  I wouldn't compare dairy dates with canned good dates. There is a significant difference there.
  - germinalphrase 7y ago
    Of course. That said, it’s common knowledge here that dates on dairy date are - in no small part - influenced by the dairy producers need to milk their cows on essentially a constant basis. If milk stays on the shelves, there will be a glut of milk that needs to be stored/disposed. To avoid this, shorter than necessary dates are put on dairy to keep it moving off the shelves.
    - jogjayr 7y ago
      I don't know about that. My milk pretty consistently goes bad within a day or 2 of the date on the can. OTOH I've cooked and eaten eggs 3 weeks after the date, with no noticeable difference in taste or texture.
      - NikkiA 7y ago
        Milk goes off mostly based on 'time from opening', if you're using milk at the estimated rate that the supermarket uses to set their best before date, then it's no surprise that it goes off at around the right time. OTOH, if you buy a bottle of milk and let it sit unopened for 5 days, then start consuming it, you'll usually find that it lasts roughly 5 days past the best before date.
- aequitas 7y ago
  My opinion is that the end dates are more conservative to avoid claims when food goes bad before their expiration date and maybe a little planned obsolescence. Most people, except for preppers maybe, will not chose one food item over another if it has a year or 2 more of shelf life. So why should manufacturers spend money over this if it's not a selling point to the most common denominator? To give some perspective check out Steve1989MREInfo's Youtube channel [0], where he routinely ingests food from cans dating as far back as the world wars. Although you might argue he has a built up immumity by now giving the amount of bad food he must have eaten. [0]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA
  - Reelin 7y ago
    There's an important difference here between canned food and pretty much everything else. Expiry dates tend to be early for perishable goods, but IMO this is analogous to buildings being overengineered. Canned goods, on the other hand, should last indefinitely so long as the can itself doesn't fail. There's just not a whole lot of relevant chemistry going on in a sterile, low oxygen environment. I suppose permeability of the can itself to oxygen (depending on what method was used to seal it) could become relevant on a long enough timescale, but if the contents are truly sterile even that shouldn't make much difference. If anything does happen to the contents of the can, as noted in another comment there will almost certainly be a visible change in volume (ie the can will deform).

by Reelin 7y ago

germinalphrase 7y ago

I would love to read about the actual safe shelf life of common foods. Being from a diary region of the. US, I have no faith in the stamped on dates

wbl 7y ago
Far longer then the dates! Food spoilage is often aesthetic before it becomes a health risk.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
You should be able to eat most canned goods multiple years after whatever their date is. A good rule of thumb is if the can isn't deformed as a result of the volume of its contents changing as result of a chemical reaction then you're good to go. As far as rules of thumb go this is a pretty good one because a chemical reaction is a necessary perquisite of food spoilage (if the food doesn't change it doesn't spoil) and said chemical reaction will almost certainly alter the volume (at STP) of the contents of the can thereby deforming it. You can also use your nose which has millions of years of incremental improvement making it good at telling you what is and isn't edible.
darkarmani 7y ago
I wouldn't compare dairy dates with canned good dates. There is a significant difference there.
- germinalphrase 7y ago
  Of course. That said, it’s common knowledge here that dates on dairy date are - in no small part - influenced by the dairy producers need to milk their cows on essentially a constant basis. If milk stays on the shelves, there will be a glut of milk that needs to be stored/disposed. To avoid this, shorter than necessary dates are put on dairy to keep it moving off the shelves.
  - jogjayr 7y ago
    I don't know about that. My milk pretty consistently goes bad within a day or 2 of the date on the can. OTOH I've cooked and eaten eggs 3 weeks after the date, with no noticeable difference in taste or texture.
    - NikkiA 7y ago
      Milk goes off mostly based on 'time from opening', if you're using milk at the estimated rate that the supermarket uses to set their best before date, then it's no surprise that it goes off at around the right time. OTOH, if you buy a bottle of milk and let it sit unopened for 5 days, then start consuming it, you'll usually find that it lasts roughly 5 days past the best before date.
aequitas 7y ago
My opinion is that the end dates are more conservative to avoid claims when food goes bad before their expiration date and maybe a little planned obsolescence. Most people, except for preppers maybe, will not chose one food item over another if it has a year or 2 more of shelf life. So why should manufacturers spend money over this if it's not a selling point to the most common denominator? To give some perspective check out Steve1989MREInfo's Youtube channel [0], where he routinely ingests food from cans dating as far back as the world wars. Although you might argue he has a built up immumity by now giving the amount of bad food he must have eaten. [0]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA
- Reelin 7y ago
  There's an important difference here between canned food and pretty much everything else. Expiry dates tend to be early for perishable goods, but IMO this is analogous to buildings being overengineered. Canned goods, on the other hand, should last indefinitely so long as the can itself doesn't fail. There's just not a whole lot of relevant chemistry going on in a sterile, low oxygen environment. I suppose permeability of the can itself to oxygen (depending on what method was used to seal it) could become relevant on a long enough timescale, but if the contents are truly sterile even that shouldn't make much difference. If anything does happen to the contents of the can, as noted in another comment there will almost certainly be a visible change in volume (ie the can will deform).