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>In this case, for example, it seems like you're partly upset by the author's race and gender I'm not at all upset by either. I'm upset by the narcissism and t

>In this case, for example, it seems like you're partly upset by the author's race and gender I'm not at all upset by either. I'm upset by the narcissism and the perpetuation of it (visavis the traction this post got). >Judging people for that, or holding it against them, strikes me as objectionable. Just to be precise I'd like for you to point out to me where I made a value judgment of the author (rather than the article). >If someone wrote about performance bicycles, would you scold them for worrying about such irrelevant machines while subsistence farmers struggled to eat, or people in Asia battled the coronavirus? The linked article is advice on how one should live their life. I have engaged directly with the premise and pointed out that "should" is directly a function of "could". >Your comment, since you seem to want a reply and not just downvotes, I bring it up only because it's strictly against the rules to use downvote in disagreement. I haven't insulted or inflamed anyone and yet people's reactions are to be offended. >Your core point is obvious to all readers. Precisely my challenge is that it is not.

bsanr2 7y ago
If you would, please repost your original comment a a reply to this one. Someone has flagged it, but I would like to read it.
- throwlaplace 7y ago
  I'll surely get sure get downvoted but these kinds of paeans are so self-indulgent: smart privileged person (usually elite educated white guy) decides to pontificate on what makes for a gratifying life, what's important, what's valuable (or whatever other good mouth feel word they've chosen to use for their self-aggrandizing that day). and then follows a list of all of their accomplishments that aren't sufficient anymore according to their new measure. but of course now they're working on some nonsense startup that is sufficient. What kind of echo chamber of privilege is hn where this kind of advice passes for insightful? It's basically like this: guys if you have a million dollars you shouldn't spend it on ABC you should spend it on XYZ. Well I've got news for you: most people don't have a choice about what they do so whether they want hard problems or not is completely moot. They do the job that pays them to eat and have shelter and build a family. And yes I'm talking even about software engineers. You should instead be writing about how grateful you are that you've had all the opportunity you've had and how you're actively working to empower others to have just as much (and not with some bs startup that extracts value).
  - vntx 7y ago
    I don’t see why you would get downvoted for this. Your statement sounds reasonable to me. I think you offended someone. HN really needs to show the flaggers username so there can be more checks and balances against this kind of emotional censoring. As for the blog, the guy does sound self-indulgent but he still makes a reasonable point.
    - throwlaplace 7y ago
      edit: haha someone chased this all the way down the chain just to downvote me here. >I don’t see why you would get downvoted for this. Your statement sounds reasonable to me. Because hn is very fragile and sensitive about words like "white", "male", "privilege", "elite", "ivy league". Time and Time again I've been downvoted for mentioning these things when they are germaine irrespective of anything in the content of my comments.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - ALittleLight 7y ago
        I don't think the expectation that you not use race and gender as a pejorative is setting a terribly high bar. If I observed that comments like yours were "often written by <non-male gender> <non-white race/ethnicity>" I think it would be more obvious to you that your language was problematic. Why not extend to everyone the courtesies you expect to be extended to some? Laughing at people "chasing you to downvote you" strikes me as the same kind of cynicism and hostility that encouraged people to downvote you before. One possibility is that the voters of hackernews are too fragile to handle your potent truths. Another is that you are making banal observations in a hostile way and people are simply downvoting you to signal that such comments aren't appreciated.
        throwlaplace 7y ago
        >I don't think the expectation that you not use race and gender as a pejorative is setting a terribly high bar I already responded to this accusation. I asked you in particular to point out where I used race and gender problematically. here it in the first response to you: >>Judging people for that, or holding it against them, strikes me as objectionable. >Just to be precise I'd like for you to point out to me where I made a value judgment of the author (rather than the article). You have not but you continue to claim I have. That's very convenient isn't it? just to recapitulate: this is the only place i've mentioned race and class and gender: > smart privileged person (usually elite educated white guy) decides to pontificate what exactly about this is unacceptable in the least? To bring up that race and gender and class inform biases of an author is not pejorative unless you have a vested interest in protecting that bias. I am cynical because I write very precisely and very clearly and do not use "purple" language and yet the supposedly astute readers of hn still react viscerally rather than dispassionately. How can you blame me? These kinds of conversations tacitly verboten on hn because they are heavily censured.
- tomhoward 7y ago
  You can see dead comments by enabling "showdead" in your profile.

bsanr2 7y ago

If you would, please repost your original comment a a reply to this one. Someone has flagged it, but I would like to read it.

throwlaplace 7y ago
I'll surely get sure get downvoted but these kinds of paeans are so self-indulgent: smart privileged person (usually elite educated white guy) decides to pontificate on what makes for a gratifying life, what's important, what's valuable (or whatever other good mouth feel word they've chosen to use for their self-aggrandizing that day). and then follows a list of all of their accomplishments that aren't sufficient anymore according to their new measure. but of course now they're working on some nonsense startup that is sufficient. What kind of echo chamber of privilege is hn where this kind of advice passes for insightful? It's basically like this: guys if you have a million dollars you shouldn't spend it on ABC you should spend it on XYZ. Well I've got news for you: most people don't have a choice about what they do so whether they want hard problems or not is completely moot. They do the job that pays them to eat and have shelter and build a family. And yes I'm talking even about software engineers. You should instead be writing about how grateful you are that you've had all the opportunity you've had and how you're actively working to empower others to have just as much (and not with some bs startup that extracts value).
- vntx 7y ago
  I don’t see why you would get downvoted for this. Your statement sounds reasonable to me. I think you offended someone. HN really needs to show the flaggers username so there can be more checks and balances against this kind of emotional censoring. As for the blog, the guy does sound self-indulgent but he still makes a reasonable point.
  - throwlaplace 7y ago
    edit: haha someone chased this all the way down the chain just to downvote me here. >I don’t see why you would get downvoted for this. Your statement sounds reasonable to me. Because hn is very fragile and sensitive about words like "white", "male", "privilege", "elite", "ivy league". Time and Time again I've been downvoted for mentioning these things when they are germaine irrespective of anything in the content of my comments.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      I don't think the expectation that you not use race and gender as a pejorative is setting a terribly high bar. If I observed that comments like yours were "often written by <non-male gender> <non-white race/ethnicity>" I think it would be more obvious to you that your language was problematic. Why not extend to everyone the courtesies you expect to be extended to some? Laughing at people "chasing you to downvote you" strikes me as the same kind of cynicism and hostility that encouraged people to downvote you before. One possibility is that the voters of hackernews are too fragile to handle your potent truths. Another is that you are making banal observations in a hostile way and people are simply downvoting you to signal that such comments aren't appreciated.
      - throwlaplace 7y ago
        >I don't think the expectation that you not use race and gender as a pejorative is setting a terribly high bar I already responded to this accusation. I asked you in particular to point out where I used race and gender problematically. here it in the first response to you: >>Judging people for that, or holding it against them, strikes me as objectionable. >Just to be precise I'd like for you to point out to me where I made a value judgment of the author (rather than the article). You have not but you continue to claim I have. That's very convenient isn't it? just to recapitulate: this is the only place i've mentioned race and class and gender: > smart privileged person (usually elite educated white guy) decides to pontificate what exactly about this is unacceptable in the least? To bring up that race and gender and class inform biases of an author is not pejorative unless you have a vested interest in protecting that bias. I am cynical because I write very precisely and very clearly and do not use "purple" language and yet the supposedly astute readers of hn still react viscerally rather than dispassionately. How can you blame me? These kinds of conversations tacitly verboten on hn because they are heavily censured.
tomhoward 7y ago
You can see dead comments by enabling "showdead" in your profile.