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IDK why this keeps coming again and again. I'm sadly in my phone but this is actually false. The client asked for changes mid construction phase so they had to

IDK why this keeps coming again and again. I'm sadly in my phone but this is actually false. The client asked for changes mid construction phase so they had to redesign it. S81 and following ones already include this changes. I'm not able to read your link but it's probably part of this FUD that comes over and over. Navantia and DCNS had a joint venture, but the requirements of the French and Spanish clients diverged so Navantia decided to go its own way. What you can find is that DCNS tried to sue Navantia back in 09, but AFAIK nothing came out of it (at least yet). Navantia didn't have experience designing submarines from scratch but they have plenty with civil and military ships. The fact that such "laughable" mistake was apparently just made in this project is interesting to say the least. Not to mention that it's not the first time that Navantia faces accusations without proof. IMO this looks like DCNS trying to block their competitor, that not only got its new founded expertise in submarines from you but also knows your commercial channels, relationships etc.

brmgb 7y ago
> French and Spanish clients diverged There are no French or Spanish clients. The Scorpene submarines were built strictly to be exported by the joint venture. Spain was expected to buy some, France wasn't. As far as I know, France only uses nuclear propulsion for its submarine and doesn't export the submarines used by its navy. > AFAIK nothing came out of it (at least yet) It was settled. Navantia entirely gave up the export rights of the Scorpene. For a submarine built to be exported, that seems pretty damning to me. > Navantia didn't have experience designing submarines from scratch but they have plenty with civil and military ships. Submarines are a lot more complicated to build. Most of the Scorpene engineering came from France. Navantia clearly wasn't ready to be left on its own.
- iagovar 7y ago
  > There are no French or Spanish clients. The Scorpene submarines were built strictly to be exported by the joint venture. Spain was expected to buy some, France wasn't. Not french and spanish clients for Scorpene, but a Spanish client for Navantia is the Spanish Navy for example, and DCNS had their own. > It was settled. Navantia entirely gave up the export rights of the Scorpene. For a submarine built to be exported, that seems pretty damning to me. Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. > Submarines are a lot more complicated to build. > Most of the Scorpene engineering came from France. Navantia clearly wasn't ready to be left on its own. That's true, although my point is that they are not some bunch of amateurs that misplaced a decimal. They've been designing ships for a long time, and building submarines at least from the 60s, so the decimal displacing is probably FUD, specially when the client changed requirements mid-construction phase, and the source of such mistake is Rafael Bardaji, who seems that has never been a Spanish Official but conservative and later far-right advisor, and honestly, is quite a fishy source.
  - brmgb 7y ago
    > Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. http://www.brahmand.com/news/DCNS-Navantia-Scorpene-collaboration-ends/5484/1/10.html http://www.brahmand.com/news/DCNS-Navantia-Scorpene-collabor... Note that the settlement is basically what DCNS was asking from the start and why they went to arbitration. Technically, Navantia is free to sell the S-80 but as they apparently can't surface yet, good luck with that.
  - Glawen 7y ago
    > Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. In french you can find it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lesechos.fr/amp/444277 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lesechos.fr/amp/444277
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      So the spanish company was building a submarine for their own clients, they allied with the americans Lockheed Martin for electronics, and the french company parted ways avec le coeur brisé. This things happen all the time, and nous aimons nous voisins du Nord plus qu'ils le croient. We enjoy all those silly jokes about spaniards in any case.

brmgb 7y ago

> French and Spanish clients diverged There are no French or Spanish clients. The Scorpene submarines were built strictly to be exported by the joint venture. Spain was expected to buy some, France wasn't. As far as I know, France only uses nuclear propulsion for its submarine and doesn't export the submarines used by its navy. > AFAIK nothing came out of it (at least yet) It was settled. Navantia entirely gave up the export rights of the Scorpene. For a submarine built to be exported, that seems pretty damning to me. > Navantia didn't have experience designing submarines from scratch but they have plenty with civil and military ships. Submarines are a lot more complicated to build. Most of the Scorpene engineering came from France. Navantia clearly wasn't ready to be left on its own.

iagovar 7y ago
> There are no French or Spanish clients. The Scorpene submarines were built strictly to be exported by the joint venture. Spain was expected to buy some, France wasn't. Not french and spanish clients for Scorpene, but a Spanish client for Navantia is the Spanish Navy for example, and DCNS had their own. > It was settled. Navantia entirely gave up the export rights of the Scorpene. For a submarine built to be exported, that seems pretty damning to me. Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. > Submarines are a lot more complicated to build. > Most of the Scorpene engineering came from France. Navantia clearly wasn't ready to be left on its own. That's true, although my point is that they are not some bunch of amateurs that misplaced a decimal. They've been designing ships for a long time, and building submarines at least from the 60s, so the decimal displacing is probably FUD, specially when the client changed requirements mid-construction phase, and the source of such mistake is Rafael Bardaji, who seems that has never been a Spanish Official but conservative and later far-right advisor, and honestly, is quite a fishy source.
- brmgb 7y ago
  > Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. http://www.brahmand.com/news/DCNS-Navantia-Scorpene-collaboration-ends/5484/1/10.html http://www.brahmand.com/news/DCNS-Navantia-Scorpene-collabor... Note that the settlement is basically what DCNS was asking from the start and why they went to arbitration. Technically, Navantia is free to sell the S-80 but as they apparently can't surface yet, good luck with that.
- Glawen 7y ago
  > Hmm, do you have any source, I've tried but didn't find anything. In french you can find it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lesechos.fr/amp/444277 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lesechos.fr/amp/444277
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    So the spanish company was building a submarine for their own clients, they allied with the americans Lockheed Martin for electronics, and the french company parted ways avec le coeur brisé. This things happen all the time, and nous aimons nous voisins du Nord plus qu'ils le croient. We enjoy all those silly jokes about spaniards in any case.