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I recently got introduced to a company called Polypoly. They are working on exactly the same, in the EU. They have an interesting setup as a collective. Users

I recently got introduced to a company called Polypoly. They are working on exactly the same, in the EU. They have an interesting setup as a collective. Users of the software automatically become members of the collective. The website talks of automatic partake in economic success. Curiously they also use the idea of self-hosted pods to hold the users private data and they even use the term 'pod' for this. When the founder, Thorsten Dittmer, gave me his elevator pitch he almost use the same line of reasoning as Schneier. Basically: 25 years ago, we technologists (while reading Gibson, mind you) thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. Now we have to fix our mistake because we're the only ones who have a chance at doing this. It is probably not exaggerated to call these sorts of companies the biggest threats to the business models of the Googles and FBs of today. [1] https://www.polypoly.eu/en/home-en https://www.polypoly.eu/en/home-en

black_puppydog 7y ago
Wow I love-hate those lopsided headlines. Although they do distract from the content...
rohan1024 7y ago
We humans have a tendency where: we invent something, exploit it only to realise at later point the mess that has happened and then correct our path. I see lot of negative comments on this thread but solid/polypoly is the beginning of that path correction for web. They might not succeed but something with the same underlying idea is going to.
- Intermernet 7y ago
  Yep, the web is awesomely resilient in the long term to subversion. FB / Google etc. could completely privatize the entire internet and I guarantee people would work out something like PingTunnel[1] to get around it. Sure, might need to operate at 1980's modem speeds for a while, but there will still be a link. I have faith that the net will self-correct, but it might take longer than any of our lifetimes to do so. Such is the evolution of technology. [1:] https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/sipb/user/golem/tmp/ptunnel-0.61.orig/web/ https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/sipb/user/golem/tmp/ptunnel-0.61... [EDIT]: Add link
- pjmorris 7y ago
  Dave Winer is fond of quoting John Gilmore, "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." It feels to me like the current breach of privacy in exchange for 'free' services might now begin to be interpreted as damage.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    I think in the eyes of “The Net”, as anthropomorphized by Winer, privacy might look like a form of censorship.
Isamu 7y ago
> thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. Now we have to fix our mistake because we're the only ones who have a chance at doing this. SOME thought the web would bring those good things. Likewise 25 years later I see this initiative as fixing some issues, but technology is fundamentally neutral (some might say “chaotic neutral”) and cannot bring freedom, understanding and equality. Those things must be regained every day. But I am optimistic about our prospects.
hinkley 7y ago
> 25 years ago, we technologists […] thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. This is not hyperbole. Every time some new stupidity hits the internet I have a moment where I recall having these conversations with people, and I wonder, if I still knew those same folks, how that conversation would go today. I think, in a way, all of these devs had a simpler understanding of group dynamics. We had all of these small, mostly self policing communities. Everyone should have this! But big communities don’t have the same dynamics. The cynical saw things like this coming, and thankfully some organized early. The EFF, for instance, turns thirty this summer. Wow. But even I would not have guessed... this. Maybe if we had there’d be more EFFs and they’d have deeper pockets. If you’re 25 and reading this, know that at least some of us are sorry.

black_puppydog 7y ago

Wow I love-hate those lopsided headlines. Although they do distract from the content...

rohan1024 7y ago

We humans have a tendency where: we invent something, exploit it only to realise at later point the mess that has happened and then correct our path. I see lot of negative comments on this thread but solid/polypoly is the beginning of that path correction for web. They might not succeed but something with the same underlying idea is going to.

Intermernet 7y ago
Yep, the web is awesomely resilient in the long term to subversion. FB / Google etc. could completely privatize the entire internet and I guarantee people would work out something like PingTunnel[1] to get around it. Sure, might need to operate at 1980's modem speeds for a while, but there will still be a link. I have faith that the net will self-correct, but it might take longer than any of our lifetimes to do so. Such is the evolution of technology. [1:] https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/sipb/user/golem/tmp/ptunnel-0.61.orig/web/ https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/sipb/user/golem/tmp/ptunnel-0.61... [EDIT]: Add link
pjmorris 7y ago
Dave Winer is fond of quoting John Gilmore, "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." It feels to me like the current breach of privacy in exchange for 'free' services might now begin to be interpreted as damage.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  I think in the eyes of “The Net”, as anthropomorphized by Winer, privacy might look like a form of censorship.

Isamu 7y ago

> thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. Now we have to fix our mistake because we're the only ones who have a chance at doing this. SOME thought the web would bring those good things. Likewise 25 years later I see this initiative as fixing some issues, but technology is fundamentally neutral (some might say “chaotic neutral”) and cannot bring freedom, understanding and equality. Those things must be regained every day. But I am optimistic about our prospects.

hinkley 7y ago

> 25 years ago, we technologists […] thought that the web will bring freedom, understanding and equality to the world. We were wrong. This is not hyperbole. Every time some new stupidity hits the internet I have a moment where I recall having these conversations with people, and I wonder, if I still knew those same folks, how that conversation would go today. I think, in a way, all of these devs had a simpler understanding of group dynamics. We had all of these small, mostly self policing communities. Everyone should have this! But big communities don’t have the same dynamics. The cynical saw things like this coming, and thankfully some organized early. The EFF, for instance, turns thirty this summer. Wow. But even I would not have guessed... this. Maybe if we had there’d be more EFFs and they’d have deeper pockets. If you’re 25 and reading this, know that at least some of us are sorry.