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> What ad networks do is the digital equivalent of filming and spying on people who walk by your storefront. Which is also legal, at least in the UK, and not m

> What ad networks do is the digital equivalent of filming and spying on people who walk by your storefront. Which is also legal, at least in the UK, and not many people have a problem with it. I think well-known, major abuses will need to occur before people take this seriously.

atoav 7y ago
It is not legal in Germany and Austria at least. The UK is one of the most surveilled places in Europe.
- morelisp 7y ago
  Some of the new JCDecaux digital signage I've seen in Berlin definitely seems to have a camera lens on its top. There's no posted notice concerning video recording, but I wonder if it's just a lens with no camera, a camera but not attached to the rest of the device, or only disabled in software.
  - Reebz 7y ago
    Another theory that could place it in a loophole: It may be performing object detection without recording what we think of as normal video. Similar to self-driving technology and object recognition, useful data can be derived without actually recording the traditional thought of “HD video in color”.
  - kapnobatairza 7y ago
    I've worked on JCDecaux smart signage. The camera is used for analytics purposes using computer vision (people counting, attentiveness, demographic data, dwell times, etc.). Nothing is recorded. In some cases, processing even happens at the edge.
    - morelisp 7y ago
      > Nothing is recorded. In some cases, processing even happens at the edge. If the data is not processed at the edge, how is nothing recorded? This smells like extremely minced words. IANAL (definitely not a German one) but I'm almost certain that even post-2017 it's still illegal to take video in a public space and send it elsewhere, without a sign, even if that video is not in some sense "preserved" elsewhere.
      - erikpukinskis 7y ago
        If data stays in RAM and is not written to permanent storage, I think you can reasonably say it’s not recorded. Frankly, I think you could even persist it to disk as long as it was pruned within 24 hours and reasonably say it’s not recorded. Otherwise I’m not sure how you can argue ANY data is “unrecorded”. Writing to a hardware buffer in the camera module would seem like “recording” to me by the strict standard.
        atoav 7y ago
        If I go and record a stranger in the street today in Germany I am quite certain that would be illegal even if I delete the recording within 24h. And I studied Film in Germany and had to deal with precisely this a hundred times. If WallDecaux is doing this, it is at least a legal grey area, unless they operate on private property, look at their own private property and have a sign that says there is a camera in operation.
        morelisp 7y ago
        Ah yes, the "NES ROM" theory of public surveillance laws. Definitely well-considered.

atoav 7y ago

It is not legal in Germany and Austria at least. The UK is one of the most surveilled places in Europe.

morelisp 7y ago
Some of the new JCDecaux digital signage I've seen in Berlin definitely seems to have a camera lens on its top. There's no posted notice concerning video recording, but I wonder if it's just a lens with no camera, a camera but not attached to the rest of the device, or only disabled in software.
- Reebz 7y ago
  Another theory that could place it in a loophole: It may be performing object detection without recording what we think of as normal video. Similar to self-driving technology and object recognition, useful data can be derived without actually recording the traditional thought of “HD video in color”.
- kapnobatairza 7y ago
  I've worked on JCDecaux smart signage. The camera is used for analytics purposes using computer vision (people counting, attentiveness, demographic data, dwell times, etc.). Nothing is recorded. In some cases, processing even happens at the edge.
  - morelisp 7y ago
    > Nothing is recorded. In some cases, processing even happens at the edge. If the data is not processed at the edge, how is nothing recorded? This smells like extremely minced words. IANAL (definitely not a German one) but I'm almost certain that even post-2017 it's still illegal to take video in a public space and send it elsewhere, without a sign, even if that video is not in some sense "preserved" elsewhere.
    - erikpukinskis 7y ago
      If data stays in RAM and is not written to permanent storage, I think you can reasonably say it’s not recorded. Frankly, I think you could even persist it to disk as long as it was pruned within 24 hours and reasonably say it’s not recorded. Otherwise I’m not sure how you can argue ANY data is “unrecorded”. Writing to a hardware buffer in the camera module would seem like “recording” to me by the strict standard.
      - atoav 7y ago
        If I go and record a stranger in the street today in Germany I am quite certain that would be illegal even if I delete the recording within 24h. And I studied Film in Germany and had to deal with precisely this a hundred times. If WallDecaux is doing this, it is at least a legal grey area, unless they operate on private property, look at their own private property and have a sign that says there is a camera in operation.
      - morelisp 7y ago
        Ah yes, the "NES ROM" theory of public surveillance laws. Definitely well-considered.