4 ms·

There is no other sane and effective way to filter the insane amount of FAANG applicants, only DS&A. Other non FAANG/Unicorns that don’t pay as well as FAANG c

There is no other sane and effective way to filter the insane amount of FAANG applicants, only DS&A. Other non FAANG/Unicorns that don’t pay as well as FAANG can drop the practice of asking DS&A questions. But for those companies that pay really really well, there will be insane amount of people that are willing to get a job there, and DS&A is a “May the strongest win” filter (although luck play a very strong role as well, yes there are stories where a junior job applicant get 4 Hard Leetcode out of 5 questions). I happily oblige. I happily will get through 1000 Leetcode and roll the dice (apply multiple times) if I need to in order to get that salary. No I’m not willing to get lower salary than FAANG/Unicorns, that’s why I’m doing this. For companies that don’t pay as well as FAANG, just drop your DS&A interview practice, or just lower the bar, otherwise it is a waste of time for either the companies or the applicants. EDIT: TL/DR. The whole answer to this DS&A debacle is only 1 thing: SALARY. End. Period. No other factor matters. You lower the salary, no one will bother with DS&A. You increase the salary, every single person on earth and their dog will study DS&A 24/7 to get that FAANG salary. Don't believe me? Head to Leetcode forum and reddit cscareerquestions. Actually we don't even need to go that far, just look at this topic on HN every single time. It is all about SALARY. Full stop.

peter_d_sherman 7y ago
But there is a way to filter the amount of FAANG applicants! It is as follows: Offer ridiculously low pay, such that only basic expenses could be paid for, like basic housing... Then, see who shows up. Whoever shows up... really wants a job. You don't hire them yet. You implement your own corporate bootcamp, where you give then coding assignments. These start easy, but progress, over a number of weeks, to those that are similar in form and difficulty to the type of work that the corporation does... A supervisor or group of supervisors reviews their work after every week. People who do not meet expectations are let go. What you're left with after that process is your new hires. That's how you cut down on frivolous resumes. That's how you weed out the casual job seekers from the purists. The purists don't care about money as much as working with the right people. It's not for everybody. People who need salaries obviously, beyond the most basic of living expenses, would be unable to apply...
- Spooky23 7y ago
  That sounds like a lot of work to oppress a few programmers. If you want to be a dick and systematically screw people, just hire an army of agency contractors in some out of the way place.
  - peter_d_sherman 7y ago
    That's not the intended goal... ...The intended goal is to figure out who is intrinsically motivated (i.e., curiousity, innate interest, desire to learn, etc.), from those that are extrinsically motivated (i.e., salary, money, title, career, corporate position, etc.)
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      I love writing software. In theory, I’d do it for free (and often do at home). I’m also not an idiot and I can readily bubble sort a low offer against my current comp and against the other offers.
- christiansakai 7y ago
  Sorry, this won't work. 1. Too arduous for the FAANG company 2. If the end result is $250k/year salary, then absolutely insane amount of people will stick it until the end. I know I do. Heck, I will live at FAANG office 24/7/365 if I need to, and I know a lot of people will do it. See the current state of Leetcode forum and reddit CS career questions to get the feel of the type A people who flock there. It is go big or go home. Bleed and get up again. Hypothetical scenario, tell the startups/VCs to pay more for software engineers, just a little bit lower than FAANG, then two things will happen: 1. Either FAANG will even increase their salary even more to attract type A types 2. A huge number of applicants of varying quality will flock to CS as an industry lowering the overall quality, forcing companies to do hard DS&A questions to filter applicants.
  - peter_d_sherman 7y ago
    I agree, it probably wouldn't work for the FAANG companies... I posted what I said as a note to my future self, if/when I run a software engineering company... if/when that happens, then that's how I'm going to handle hiring...
gedy 7y ago
> There is no other sane and effective way to filter the insane amount of FAANG applicants, only DS&A. Then why do they also apply this to candidates they reach out to? I've never applied to FAANG, only interviewed after (in-house) recruiters or internal referrals. It always seems to be the same bullshit.
- christiansakai 7y ago
  Because of their recruiters. It is arguably better to hire through referrals as well.
cryptozeus 7y ago
This, yes exactly this is the reason I am preparing. I hate it but whats the alternative?
- christiansakai 7y ago
  No alternative, or AFAIK, no better alternative (yes I've experienced other style of interview like take home test, project, trial work, etc, all bullcrap). Keep doing it. I'm at my 300th Leetcode questions now, I just need 700 more (half joking). Jokes aside, my point is, you can only get better, and when you get better, a non FAANG interview is actually a piece of cake, and you can just job hop every year until you maxed out your salary band, rinse and repeat. Repeat after me: It can only get better, and one day you will actually conquer FAANG.

peter_d_sherman 7y ago

But there is a way to filter the amount of FAANG applicants! It is as follows: Offer ridiculously low pay, such that only basic expenses could be paid for, like basic housing... Then, see who shows up. Whoever shows up... really wants a job. You don't hire them yet. You implement your own corporate bootcamp, where you give then coding assignments. These start easy, but progress, over a number of weeks, to those that are similar in form and difficulty to the type of work that the corporation does... A supervisor or group of supervisors reviews their work after every week. People who do not meet expectations are let go. What you're left with after that process is your new hires. That's how you cut down on frivolous resumes. That's how you weed out the casual job seekers from the purists. The purists don't care about money as much as working with the right people. It's not for everybody. People who need salaries obviously, beyond the most basic of living expenses, would be unable to apply...

Spooky23 7y ago
That sounds like a lot of work to oppress a few programmers. If you want to be a dick and systematically screw people, just hire an army of agency contractors in some out of the way place.
- peter_d_sherman 7y ago
  That's not the intended goal... ...The intended goal is to figure out who is intrinsically motivated (i.e., curiousity, innate interest, desire to learn, etc.), from those that are extrinsically motivated (i.e., salary, money, title, career, corporate position, etc.)
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    I love writing software. In theory, I’d do it for free (and often do at home). I’m also not an idiot and I can readily bubble sort a low offer against my current comp and against the other offers.
christiansakai 7y ago
Sorry, this won't work. 1. Too arduous for the FAANG company 2. If the end result is $250k/year salary, then absolutely insane amount of people will stick it until the end. I know I do. Heck, I will live at FAANG office 24/7/365 if I need to, and I know a lot of people will do it. See the current state of Leetcode forum and reddit CS career questions to get the feel of the type A people who flock there. It is go big or go home. Bleed and get up again. Hypothetical scenario, tell the startups/VCs to pay more for software engineers, just a little bit lower than FAANG, then two things will happen: 1. Either FAANG will even increase their salary even more to attract type A types 2. A huge number of applicants of varying quality will flock to CS as an industry lowering the overall quality, forcing companies to do hard DS&A questions to filter applicants.
- peter_d_sherman 7y ago
  I agree, it probably wouldn't work for the FAANG companies... I posted what I said as a note to my future self, if/when I run a software engineering company... if/when that happens, then that's how I'm going to handle hiring...

gedy 7y ago

> There is no other sane and effective way to filter the insane amount of FAANG applicants, only DS&A. Then why do they also apply this to candidates they reach out to? I've never applied to FAANG, only interviewed after (in-house) recruiters or internal referrals. It always seems to be the same bullshit.

christiansakai 7y ago
Because of their recruiters. It is arguably better to hire through referrals as well.

cryptozeus 7y ago

This, yes exactly this is the reason I am preparing. I hate it but whats the alternative?

christiansakai 7y ago
No alternative, or AFAIK, no better alternative (yes I've experienced other style of interview like take home test, project, trial work, etc, all bullcrap). Keep doing it. I'm at my 300th Leetcode questions now, I just need 700 more (half joking). Jokes aside, my point is, you can only get better, and when you get better, a non FAANG interview is actually a piece of cake, and you can just job hop every year until you maxed out your salary band, rinse and repeat. Repeat after me: It can only get better, and one day you will actually conquer FAANG.