3 ms·

This is a good read. Anyone have recommendations for reading on the next steps past 'senior'? This is called various things, like principal engineer, fellow, et

This is a good read. Anyone have recommendations for reading on the next steps past 'senior'? This is called various things, like principal engineer, fellow, etc. at bigger organizations. Some people's careers might take them to the point where they do not write much code, and act as a key interface between executives and programmers. If they aren't a manager and can still be on the IC track, where they provide technical leadership, coaching, vision, etc.

tyingq 7y ago
My experience is that the fellow, principal, distinguished, etc, positions are almost always appointed positions. So there's little you can do, other than find opportunities for broad exposure, to land one.
hirako2000 7y ago
When a senior engineer sits on that role for too many years, the promotion is honorific (and jumps in salary band and benefits), or its a way to reward a very valuable senior engineer before he hop to another job. At least that's what I've seen in large organisations where senior has actually become a mid level engineer. The tiers make me laugh sometimes, as the titled fellow, principal, distinguished, or evangelist are attributed to a few, sometimes even with the "senior" prefix added to those titles.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ath0 7y ago
There are a bunch of great references for career ladders, broadly speaking, that discuss the rollout process and what each level means for that company. The best not only say something about the levels, but about how the levels are interpreted in line with that company's culture, whatever it means. It's very hard to get to levels beyond senior as a pure generalist: you're typically going to have to have worked on projects with significant, company-wide impact, and that usually means (a) doing something unique within a domain and (b) working with many others, in different types of roles, in your company, in order to have that impact. Two good intro readings on career ladders: https://labs.spotify.com/2016/02/08/technical-career-path/ https://labs.spotify.com/2016/02/08/technical-career-path/ http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder
alpha_squared 7y ago
Deliver industry-changing projects with proven results and know your industry/domain; this could also be projects that open up new markets for the org. While I think senior developer is achievable without domain knowledge of the industry, I fail to think of a single principal or fellow I've met who did not have deep understanding of the field they're in. Some had patents to their name, some didn't; all had 'proven' in some way that they're indispensable for their respective domain.
daxfohl 7y ago
At Microsoft, I'd say roughly senior is able to lead a project end to end. Principal is being able to represent a department and take responsibility for making sure multiple projects are run smoothly, developers are growing, outages are prevented. There's some overlap, and it's really just a matter of scale and trust. As you produce results, you get more trust and more responsibility for larger things. Progressing through principal is much more about paying attention to the bottom line. It's your responsibility to make sure the things you're doing are things that either customers are willing to pay for, or things that greatly reduce COGS. These are all achievable by mortals so long as you're hard working, determined, and focused on the right things. Beyond that, Distinguished Engineer I'd say is reserved for someone who works at a level beyond the most of us, whose work has produced multiple patents or been widely influential across the company or the industry at large. Fellow is someone who has done this continually throughout their career.

tyingq 7y ago

My experience is that the fellow, principal, distinguished, etc, positions are almost always appointed positions. So there's little you can do, other than find opportunities for broad exposure, to land one.

hirako2000 7y ago

When a senior engineer sits on that role for too many years, the promotion is honorific (and jumps in salary band and benefits), or its a way to reward a very valuable senior engineer before he hop to another job. At least that's what I've seen in large organisations where senior has actually become a mid level engineer. The tiers make me laugh sometimes, as the titled fellow, principal, distinguished, or evangelist are attributed to a few, sometimes even with the "senior" prefix added to those titles.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ath0 7y ago

There are a bunch of great references for career ladders, broadly speaking, that discuss the rollout process and what each level means for that company. The best not only say something about the levels, but about how the levels are interpreted in line with that company's culture, whatever it means. It's very hard to get to levels beyond senior as a pure generalist: you're typically going to have to have worked on projects with significant, company-wide impact, and that usually means (a) doing something unique within a domain and (b) working with many others, in different types of roles, in your company, in order to have that impact. Two good intro readings on career ladders: https://labs.spotify.com/2016/02/08/technical-career-path/ https://labs.spotify.com/2016/02/08/technical-career-path/ http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder http://dresscode.renttherunway.com/blog/ladder

alpha_squared 7y ago

Deliver industry-changing projects with proven results and know your industry/domain; this could also be projects that open up new markets for the org. While I think senior developer is achievable without domain knowledge of the industry, I fail to think of a single principal or fellow I've met who did not have deep understanding of the field they're in. Some had patents to their name, some didn't; all had 'proven' in some way that they're indispensable for their respective domain.

daxfohl 7y ago

At Microsoft, I'd say roughly senior is able to lead a project end to end. Principal is being able to represent a department and take responsibility for making sure multiple projects are run smoothly, developers are growing, outages are prevented. There's some overlap, and it's really just a matter of scale and trust. As you produce results, you get more trust and more responsibility for larger things. Progressing through principal is much more about paying attention to the bottom line. It's your responsibility to make sure the things you're doing are things that either customers are willing to pay for, or things that greatly reduce COGS. These are all achievable by mortals so long as you're hard working, determined, and focused on the right things. Beyond that, Distinguished Engineer I'd say is reserved for someone who works at a level beyond the most of us, whose work has produced multiple patents or been widely influential across the company or the industry at large. Fellow is someone who has done this continually throughout their career.