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A third factor is: do you want to know? I worked some years in Norway where tax information is public making it fairly easy to estimate what people earn. I cho

A third factor is: do you want to know? I worked some years in Norway where tax information is public making it fairly easy to estimate what people earn. I chose not to view this information given I was happy with my salary and work. I felt if I saw similar level people earnt more and I raised this but didn't get equalised it could hurt my sense of justice and how content I felt in the workplace. Given I enjoyed my work and company I didn't want to risk this as something that might bug me.

aesyondu 7y ago
I understand how you feel, and while I agree with you to a certain extent, I'm reminded of a particular behavior children make, which I will embody into a quote: "Just because you closed your eyes doesn't mean the monster is gone." Also "Ignorance is bliss." Which could be interpreted either way.
- codingmess 7y ago
  Somebody else earning more than you is not a monster that will eat you, though.
- Gustomaximus 7y ago
  I guess it's a combination of current position and what you value. I was already paid reasonably well which likely helps take this position. Once that threshold is met I value happiness over a bit more money. If I was frustrated with my income I'd likely be viewing the tax info and looking for negotation points, or knowing a company is a poor payer in general. No 'right' answer, only what is right for you.
IkmoIkmo 7y ago
> felt if I saw similar level people earnt more and I raised this but didn't get equalised it could hurt my sense of justice and how content I felt in the workplace. Shouldn't it, though? It's like saying your partner is cheating on you, but you don't want to know because it could 'hurt your sense of justice and how content I feel in the relationship'. I mean, I'll grant you that if you're happy in your job, and honestly don't care about pay, it's different. Just like if you're in an open relationship, and genuinely don't care if your partner sleeps with other people. That's fine. But by saying it could hurt you, you're implying it does matter. And if it matters, the first step to righting any wrong is to know about it and to be able to take adequate steps. Put differently, suppose other people knew they were worth more, took that information and asked more, got more, and you didn't, even though you could've. That doesn't sound right to me. What I think could be a useful tool is to take that raw Norwegian tax data, run a basic condition on it, and then spit out only results you find 'relevant', which can protect you from knowing things you don't want to know. e.g. input 10 names of your peers (who should be earning the same), and only show those salaries that are say 20% above your own. That prevents you from knowing Bob earns 5% more for reasons that may never be resolved, which could still annoy you. But if say Bob earns 20% more, that's something I'd want to know to see if I could take action. Or, perhaps even more conservative, to only get a sense of where you stand versus company average (for your function) and versus market average. That takes out a lot of the personal but tells you whether you should be happy where you are, or asking for a raise or another employer.
bostik 7y ago
Disclosure: I am an outlier, and work for a company where salaries are public.[ß] I have never read through the full list of what anyone makes. I honestly don't care. I have checked whether a particular engineer has got a raise I have advocated for or what I believe they are worth, but that's different. The biggest benefit from this is that even relatively junior people are willing to recommend offers for candidates that actually match market rates based on their skills. To be able and confident to quote offers that are higher than what you make is an incredible leveler. ß: our market maker unit deviates from this - they found out that hiring from banking or hedge fund backgrounds, new people were not comfortable knowing/disclosing the exact numbers but are okay with salary band granularity. Sure. Fine. Whatever works.

aesyondu 7y ago

I understand how you feel, and while I agree with you to a certain extent, I'm reminded of a particular behavior children make, which I will embody into a quote: "Just because you closed your eyes doesn't mean the monster is gone." Also "Ignorance is bliss." Which could be interpreted either way.

codingmess 7y ago
Somebody else earning more than you is not a monster that will eat you, though.
Gustomaximus 7y ago
I guess it's a combination of current position and what you value. I was already paid reasonably well which likely helps take this position. Once that threshold is met I value happiness over a bit more money. If I was frustrated with my income I'd likely be viewing the tax info and looking for negotation points, or knowing a company is a poor payer in general. No 'right' answer, only what is right for you.

IkmoIkmo 7y ago

> felt if I saw similar level people earnt more and I raised this but didn't get equalised it could hurt my sense of justice and how content I felt in the workplace. Shouldn't it, though? It's like saying your partner is cheating on you, but you don't want to know because it could 'hurt your sense of justice and how content I feel in the relationship'. I mean, I'll grant you that if you're happy in your job, and honestly don't care about pay, it's different. Just like if you're in an open relationship, and genuinely don't care if your partner sleeps with other people. That's fine. But by saying it could hurt you, you're implying it does matter. And if it matters, the first step to righting any wrong is to know about it and to be able to take adequate steps. Put differently, suppose other people knew they were worth more, took that information and asked more, got more, and you didn't, even though you could've. That doesn't sound right to me. What I think could be a useful tool is to take that raw Norwegian tax data, run a basic condition on it, and then spit out only results you find 'relevant', which can protect you from knowing things you don't want to know. e.g. input 10 names of your peers (who should be earning the same), and only show those salaries that are say 20% above your own. That prevents you from knowing Bob earns 5% more for reasons that may never be resolved, which could still annoy you. But if say Bob earns 20% more, that's something I'd want to know to see if I could take action. Or, perhaps even more conservative, to only get a sense of where you stand versus company average (for your function) and versus market average. That takes out a lot of the personal but tells you whether you should be happy where you are, or asking for a raise or another employer.

bostik 7y ago

Disclosure: I am an outlier, and work for a company where salaries are public.[ß] I have never read through the full list of what anyone makes. I honestly don't care. I have checked whether a particular engineer has got a raise I have advocated for or what I believe they are worth, but that's different. The biggest benefit from this is that even relatively junior people are willing to recommend offers for candidates that actually match market rates based on their skills. To be able and confident to quote offers that are higher than what you make is an incredible leveler. ß: our market maker unit deviates from this - they found out that hiring from banking or hedge fund backgrounds, new people were not comfortable knowing/disclosing the exact numbers but are okay with salary band granularity. Sure. Fine. Whatever works.