4 ms·

Many, many, more people than the 2 million intra-muros residents spend their daily life in intra-muros, i bet you could double that number, for these people not

Many, many, more people than the 2 million intra-muros residents spend their daily life in intra-muros, i bet you could double that number, for these people not to have a voice in how what is essentially their city center is governed is extremely undemocratic. "Real Parisian" is an insulting term to use.

ekianjo 7y ago
> i bet you could double that number, for these people not to have a voice in how what is essentially their city center is governed is extremely undemocratic That's nonsense though. You could argue that the influence of Parisian politics go way beyond the city and by your logic the whole of France should be voting for stuff that concerns Paris. That's just not how representation works.
- pamicel 7y ago
  No I lived in Rennes for a while I couldn’t give the slightest damn about Parisian politics. I am saying that for many around Paris, Paris is like their very own city center, and they cannot move anywhere or do anything without going intra-muros, every single day. And essentially, out of two equally concerned people, the one who’s richest can afford intra-muros and is the only one who has a voice.
- titanomachy 7y ago
  It's not obvious to me that only the people who can afford to live in a wealthy city centre should unilaterally make decisions affecting the greater group of people whose destinies are tied to that city. Saying "that's just how it works" is not really a justification.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    Then by what logic do you justify that transient workers would have more power than the own residents of Paris about how the city should run? Because this is exactly what is suggested as more people live around Paris than inside.
    - titanomachy 7y ago
      Is there a possibility for middle ground between "no say at all" and "some influence"? Also, people who live in suburbs and commute to a city centre every day may object to being called "transient workers"!
    - pamicel 7y ago
      There are three groups here - those who have a say - those who have no say but should - those who have no say but who don’t fill the conditions to have it I am advocating for the second group And it is not a spectrum, the third group’s condition is often orthogonal to the second group’s condition Said an other way, "Paris" should be defined as a greater area, because the center has extreme day to day and structural influence over those, but there is a point where it stops being the case, of course there is a degree of ambiguity regarding where to stop, but it is definitive and unambiguous that the current state of affair is unfair

ekianjo 7y ago

> i bet you could double that number, for these people not to have a voice in how what is essentially their city center is governed is extremely undemocratic That's nonsense though. You could argue that the influence of Parisian politics go way beyond the city and by your logic the whole of France should be voting for stuff that concerns Paris. That's just not how representation works.

pamicel 7y ago
No I lived in Rennes for a while I couldn’t give the slightest damn about Parisian politics. I am saying that for many around Paris, Paris is like their very own city center, and they cannot move anywhere or do anything without going intra-muros, every single day. And essentially, out of two equally concerned people, the one who’s richest can afford intra-muros and is the only one who has a voice.
titanomachy 7y ago
It's not obvious to me that only the people who can afford to live in a wealthy city centre should unilaterally make decisions affecting the greater group of people whose destinies are tied to that city. Saying "that's just how it works" is not really a justification.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Then by what logic do you justify that transient workers would have more power than the own residents of Paris about how the city should run? Because this is exactly what is suggested as more people live around Paris than inside.
  - titanomachy 7y ago
    Is there a possibility for middle ground between "no say at all" and "some influence"? Also, people who live in suburbs and commute to a city centre every day may object to being called "transient workers"!
  - pamicel 7y ago
    There are three groups here - those who have a say - those who have no say but should - those who have no say but who don’t fill the conditions to have it I am advocating for the second group And it is not a spectrum, the third group’s condition is often orthogonal to the second group’s condition Said an other way, "Paris" should be defined as a greater area, because the center has extreme day to day and structural influence over those, but there is a point where it stops being the case, of course there is a degree of ambiguity regarding where to stop, but it is definitive and unambiguous that the current state of affair is unfair