3 ms·

I’d be frustrated with my colleagues to know how much they make and they’d be frustrated with me. Job titles jr, 1, 2, sr are frustrating enough. I’m always sur

I’d be frustrated with my colleagues to know how much they make and they’d be frustrated with me. Job titles jr, 1, 2, sr are frustrating enough. I’m always surprised when I learn a great engineer is only a 1. Management uses grades like a carrot and stick. I’m all for giving people with the same job the same title. Public grades/salary on the other hand makes it hard to work with people. You can’t look at another person without thinking of their worth and compare it to yours. It creates unnecessary drama, makes people think they’re more important than they are, and distracts from the actual work. Glassdoor and recruiters already should give you a good idea of what you’re worth. Knowing other people’s compensation will only lead to jealousy of others and others of you. It’s one of those human nature things that can’t be turned off so best not to exacerbate it.

Proziam 7y ago
I gotta say that I disagree. I've never had a problem with others knowing my salary (and it's never been a low number) and I've always championed people who I knew were underpaid relative to their effort and talents. People knowing what I made never created an issue for me, but it certainly helped others to negotiate better for themselves. Everyone sharing information equalizes the imbalance of power in the workplace. It may not be comfortable for everyone, but it definitely helps people get what they're worth.
mrweasel 7y ago
Personally I don't consider my salary a secret. Even though my colleagues newer shared their salary with my, they've always gotten an honest answer if they asked my. Apparently those of my colleagues who now know what I make believes that I'm under paid by around $1000 per month. At the same time I feel that my pay is excellent and that my co-workers deserve every cent they make. Drama around people salaries could arise, but only if your company rewards people randomly. Knowing that a colleagues makes more than you should prompt you to ask your boss what it is that you're doing or not doing that keeps you at a lower pay, and your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less. In my experience recruiters and public salary databases isn't that useful. Most large organisations have their own, or buy access to salary statistics and will use those. In my case recruiters have been off by as much as $15000 per year, not including existing bonuses and overtime. Salaries should in my mind should be public. I believe it will result in more equal pay, but also lower salaries to a large group of people who currently enjoy a salary that isn't reflective of they responsibility or the importance of their job.
- greedo 7y ago
  "Knowing that a colleagues makes more than you should prompt you to ask your boss what it is that you're doing or not doing that keeps you at a lower pay, and your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less." This assumes that your boss is rewarded for keeping you happy. In my org, we use a form of stack ranking; so my boss just gives whoever he likes the highest rank. Everyone else gets a COL raise. My boss is rewarded for being a tough negotiator with vendors and staff; that makes his boss happy. And my boss, despite his lack of self-awareness, isn't technical in any way. So he has no ability to either direct my work, or to judge it in a technical manner. This limits his ability to tell me exactly why I'm paid less. He's a typical middle manager who's more of a negotiator than a technical manager. Yet he holds my career in his hands.
- trixie_ 7y ago
  "your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less." 'Why' is a qualitative measurement. You will never agree. The debate will never end. It will always be well be, "he did X, I did Y, I think Y is more important, so I think I should be paid more" times a thousands of employees. Believe me grades are a public salary microcosm. I worked at a company for 4 years that added grades to titles in the middle of my stay. It was a disaster. People were never happy, always jealous, constantly asking their boss 'what they need to do' to achieve a subjective thing. I think you're right it would lead to more equal pay because that would be the only way to avoid the drama. It does put the company at a competitive disadvantage now because - Your competitors know how much all your positions make, while they don't have to make theirs public Hiring a dev at a discount is impossible because they will complain Hiring a dev at a premium is impossible because current employees will complain Holding on to talent is harder because if they leave for a better offer - you cant match their pay because everyone else will complain Really the only way this isn't a problem is if you're underpaid - like you are. And like I said there are many services out there that will give you a good idea of range you should be paid.
Shivetya 7y ago
I agree, there are only so many titles to go around and we have to be honest, some people with the same title are much more important and valuable. Pretty much end up with grades like those seen in government [0] and then that might not be sufficient. Do you apply grades company wide, department wide, or even down to the team level? Do you get points for additional skills, how do you adjust for these intangibles? How much does seniority count for? Seniority might help for some issues but I know many of us can bring up stories of people just overpaid simply for being there too long. We can even point to many who came in are not qualified. Finally yes we can all point to those we know who should make more but publishing salaries is not the solution, audit and HR solutions can cover obvious cases of discrimination. Salary guidance and ranges could be published without issue but I think salaries except for compensation numbers required to be disclosed should be treated like any other personal information. PS: I really dislike articles that attempt to guilt people into agreement. Right off the bat they are trying to imply you are wrong for disagreeing, this is just as mickey mouse as saying "for the children". If anything I just tune it all out when they start off like that. It isn't journalism, it is pontificating [0] https://gogovernment.org/pay-and-the-general-schedule-gs/ https://gogovernment.org/pay-and-the-general-schedule-gs/

Proziam 7y ago

I gotta say that I disagree. I've never had a problem with others knowing my salary (and it's never been a low number) and I've always championed people who I knew were underpaid relative to their effort and talents. People knowing what I made never created an issue for me, but it certainly helped others to negotiate better for themselves. Everyone sharing information equalizes the imbalance of power in the workplace. It may not be comfortable for everyone, but it definitely helps people get what they're worth.

mrweasel 7y ago

Personally I don't consider my salary a secret. Even though my colleagues newer shared their salary with my, they've always gotten an honest answer if they asked my. Apparently those of my colleagues who now know what I make believes that I'm under paid by around $1000 per month. At the same time I feel that my pay is excellent and that my co-workers deserve every cent they make. Drama around people salaries could arise, but only if your company rewards people randomly. Knowing that a colleagues makes more than you should prompt you to ask your boss what it is that you're doing or not doing that keeps you at a lower pay, and your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less. In my experience recruiters and public salary databases isn't that useful. Most large organisations have their own, or buy access to salary statistics and will use those. In my case recruiters have been off by as much as $15000 per year, not including existing bonuses and overtime. Salaries should in my mind should be public. I believe it will result in more equal pay, but also lower salaries to a large group of people who currently enjoy a salary that isn't reflective of they responsibility or the importance of their job.

greedo 7y ago
"Knowing that a colleagues makes more than you should prompt you to ask your boss what it is that you're doing or not doing that keeps you at a lower pay, and your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less." This assumes that your boss is rewarded for keeping you happy. In my org, we use a form of stack ranking; so my boss just gives whoever he likes the highest rank. Everyone else gets a COL raise. My boss is rewarded for being a tough negotiator with vendors and staff; that makes his boss happy. And my boss, despite his lack of self-awareness, isn't technical in any way. So he has no ability to either direct my work, or to judge it in a technical manner. This limits his ability to tell me exactly why I'm paid less. He's a typical middle manager who's more of a negotiator than a technical manager. Yet he holds my career in his hands.
trixie_ 7y ago
"your boss should be able to tell you exactly why you're paid less." 'Why' is a qualitative measurement. You will never agree. The debate will never end. It will always be well be, "he did X, I did Y, I think Y is more important, so I think I should be paid more" times a thousands of employees. Believe me grades are a public salary microcosm. I worked at a company for 4 years that added grades to titles in the middle of my stay. It was a disaster. People were never happy, always jealous, constantly asking their boss 'what they need to do' to achieve a subjective thing. I think you're right it would lead to more equal pay because that would be the only way to avoid the drama. It does put the company at a competitive disadvantage now because - Your competitors know how much all your positions make, while they don't have to make theirs public Hiring a dev at a discount is impossible because they will complain Hiring a dev at a premium is impossible because current employees will complain Holding on to talent is harder because if they leave for a better offer - you cant match their pay because everyone else will complain Really the only way this isn't a problem is if you're underpaid - like you are. And like I said there are many services out there that will give you a good idea of range you should be paid.

Shivetya 7y ago

I agree, there are only so many titles to go around and we have to be honest, some people with the same title are much more important and valuable. Pretty much end up with grades like those seen in government [0] and then that might not be sufficient. Do you apply grades company wide, department wide, or even down to the team level? Do you get points for additional skills, how do you adjust for these intangibles? How much does seniority count for? Seniority might help for some issues but I know many of us can bring up stories of people just overpaid simply for being there too long. We can even point to many who came in are not qualified. Finally yes we can all point to those we know who should make more but publishing salaries is not the solution, audit and HR solutions can cover obvious cases of discrimination. Salary guidance and ranges could be published without issue but I think salaries except for compensation numbers required to be disclosed should be treated like any other personal information. PS: I really dislike articles that attempt to guilt people into agreement. Right off the bat they are trying to imply you are wrong for disagreeing, this is just as mickey mouse as saying "for the children". If anything I just tune it all out when they start off like that. It isn't journalism, it is pontificating [0] https://gogovernment.org/pay-and-the-general-schedule-gs/ https://gogovernment.org/pay-and-the-general-schedule-gs/