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> In Paris, this isn’t necessarily such a tall order. The mayor oversees only the 2.2 million residents of the city’s heavily populated historic core, which alr

by carlob 7y ago

> In Paris, this isn’t necessarily such a tall order. The mayor oversees only the 2.2 million residents of the city’s heavily populated historic core, which already enjoys some of the use-mixing that the 15-minute-city concept encourages, thanks to its pre-industrial roots. This is the main problem of Paris and of Hidalgo. For most practical purposes Paris is a 10 million inhabitants city, yet only 2 get to vote for the 'real' mayor, those who live outside the historic center are fragmented into a bunch of smaller counties and are also generally poorer than 'real' Parisians. When Hidalgo banned cars on the quays, Parisians were very happy, while commuters from other counties had to add some time to their commute and were furious. Look at this [0] plot, see how the green line stopped tracking the blue one? That's your problem... [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Croissance_population_Paris.PNG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Croissan...

seaal 7y ago
For anyone interested in the linked chart labeled in English: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Paris_Historical_Population.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Paris_Hi...
antpls 7y ago
From the article : "In her re-election campaign, Mayor Anne Hidalgo says that every Paris resident should be able to meet their essential needs within a short walk or bike ride." "Paris" is defined as Paris intra-muros + the Boulogne and Vincenne parks, which are limited in space and was saturated long time ago. You are a "Paris resident" if you live inside of the City of Paris (the green line of the plot). The chart is showing "Aire urbaine" and "Unité urbaine" which are another way to draw geographical limits and are only used for statistical purposes, and they include the "Region of Paris", or "Ile de France". Obviously, the region is expanding like any other capital's region in the world, so that plot exactly shows nothing. The sentence "For most practical purposes Paris is a 10 million inhabitants city" is fake news. People living inside of the City of Paris are asking to be able to use bikes or other transport means, but all the cars coming from outside of Paris everyday are making it difficult. Stop confusing the Region of Paris and the City of Paris. People living inside the City of Paris (the Parisians) have right to elect a mayor who will defend them. If you live in one of the adjacent cities, go elect a mayor that will locally improve your quality of life, but (real) Parisians are sick of the traffic inside their city and no other city has right to decide for them.
- laurentb 7y ago
  there is nothing "fake news" about this statement. it's just simply factually incorrect.
- rhn_mk1 7y ago
  The point of democracy and electing mayors is to empower people to change their destiny. The chart shows that there population of the larger Paris area is increasing, as you yourself confirm: > the region is expanding like any other capital's region in the world Why are new people coming there though? Are they coming to tie their lives to the City of Paris, but they must settle for the larger region because of the saturation? Or are they coming to join the Region of Paris because of its merits excluding the City? If it's for the former, then they deserve some democratic influence on the place that brought them there, and the chart shows that the division into City of Paris and the rest denies the newcomers that influence.
  - antpls 7y ago
    It's only my own opinion, but I believe there is too much centralization of national, international and diplomatic institutions inside the City of Paris. I am _for_ more decentralization of businesses and powers across the Region of Paris and across other cities of France. House pricing clearly shows that the City of Paris is a gravity center in terms of everything, which leads to many of the current traffic and pollution issues imo. Maybe a decentralization of France's institutions, powers, businesses etc could help it? Edit : Idea : at each new presidential term, move all institutions and the french "white house" to Lyon or Marseilles, second biggest city of France. At the next presidential term, move everything again to Paris.
    - jackjeff 7y ago
      Or Toulouse ranked 4. That may force the government to invest for some infrastructure. I don’t think we’ll ever a TGV there.
      - phtrivier 7y ago
enriquto 7y ago
> commuters from other counties had to add some time to their commute and were furious. This is an unfortunate over-generalization. As an inhabitant of the banlieue, I was very happy for this development, and I'm pushing for the mayor of my commune to ban cars as well. Hoping that the whole urban area is wholly served by public transportation and biking. I hate cars, noise and pollution!
- yostrovs 7y ago
  When I visited Paris, it was the scooters that annoyed me to no end. They sounded like two strokes and were everywhere. Will they be banned too?
  - baud147258 7y ago
    Well, the scooters delivering their burgers and sushis to the hipsters voting for the current mayor, so it's rather unlikely.
    - baud147258 7y ago
      I see a lot of downvotes, but no coherent answers. Seems like I hit a nerve.
dbeley 7y ago
Most of commuters from other counties use public transportation, not cars.
hrktb 7y ago
> while commuters from other counties had to add some time to their commute and were furious. Commuting by car to Paris is mostly for near counties (with real estate prices not that far from Paris. Puteaux or Boulogne people are in average well set) or people living very far but are paid enough to spend an hour and half in their car. The general population takes buses and trains to commute, as parking in Paris is also a PITA. I was mildly amused to hear that our company in the middle of Paris only provides underground parking places to high level managers, and I can’t imagine renting a parking place somewhere else is any cheap.
rsynnott 7y ago
I think this is a problem with any disproportionately large city. But I’m not sure there’s a great solution, because the pseudo-Paris areas here presumably want their autonomy. In Ireland, a country of under 5 million, all of the local authority decisions for the central bit of Dublin are made by Dublin City Council, which covers half a million people. But that’s largely an arbitrary distinction; the metropolitan area mostly covers three other local authorities and leaks into some others, and contains 1.5 million people. The only sign you have that you’ve wandered outside DCC in any direction is that the traffic lights are a bit different. And ‘greater Dublin’, which encompasses the adjacent local authorities, contains over 2 million. And that’s not the end of it; lots of people outside Greater Dublin commute in. So, DCC makes decisions that impact at least 2 million people, but is elected by a population of 500k. I think there’s actually an argument for merging the four Dublin local authorities, but even that would be a political nightmare. Extending DCC to cover half the country is clearly not viable, and would not be accepted. But given that, it’s natural for DCC to care more about making the city work for people who live in its area and who vote for it than those commuting in from far away.

by carlob 7y ago

seaal 7y ago

For anyone interested in the linked chart labeled in English: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Paris_Historical_Population.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Paris_Hi...

antpls 7y ago

From the article : "In her re-election campaign, Mayor Anne Hidalgo says that every Paris resident should be able to meet their essential needs within a short walk or bike ride." "Paris" is defined as Paris intra-muros + the Boulogne and Vincenne parks, which are limited in space and was saturated long time ago. You are a "Paris resident" if you live inside of the City of Paris (the green line of the plot). The chart is showing "Aire urbaine" and "Unité urbaine" which are another way to draw geographical limits and are only used for statistical purposes, and they include the "Region of Paris", or "Ile de France". Obviously, the region is expanding like any other capital's region in the world, so that plot exactly shows nothing. The sentence "For most practical purposes Paris is a 10 million inhabitants city" is fake news. People living inside of the City of Paris are asking to be able to use bikes or other transport means, but all the cars coming from outside of Paris everyday are making it difficult. Stop confusing the Region of Paris and the City of Paris. People living inside the City of Paris (the Parisians) have right to elect a mayor who will defend them. If you live in one of the adjacent cities, go elect a mayor that will locally improve your quality of life, but (real) Parisians are sick of the traffic inside their city and no other city has right to decide for them.

laurentb 7y ago
there is nothing "fake news" about this statement. it's just simply factually incorrect.
rhn_mk1 7y ago
The point of democracy and electing mayors is to empower people to change their destiny. The chart shows that there population of the larger Paris area is increasing, as you yourself confirm: > the region is expanding like any other capital's region in the world Why are new people coming there though? Are they coming to tie their lives to the City of Paris, but they must settle for the larger region because of the saturation? Or are they coming to join the Region of Paris because of its merits excluding the City? If it's for the former, then they deserve some democratic influence on the place that brought them there, and the chart shows that the division into City of Paris and the rest denies the newcomers that influence.
- antpls 7y ago
  It's only my own opinion, but I believe there is too much centralization of national, international and diplomatic institutions inside the City of Paris. I am _for_ more decentralization of businesses and powers across the Region of Paris and across other cities of France. House pricing clearly shows that the City of Paris is a gravity center in terms of everything, which leads to many of the current traffic and pollution issues imo. Maybe a decentralization of France's institutions, powers, businesses etc could help it? Edit : Idea : at each new presidential term, move all institutions and the french "white house" to Lyon or Marseilles, second biggest city of France. At the next presidential term, move everything again to Paris.
  - jackjeff 7y ago
    Or Toulouse ranked 4. That may force the government to invest for some infrastructure. I don’t think we’ll ever a TGV there.
    - phtrivier 7y ago

enriquto 7y ago

> commuters from other counties had to add some time to their commute and were furious. This is an unfortunate over-generalization. As an inhabitant of the banlieue, I was very happy for this development, and I'm pushing for the mayor of my commune to ban cars as well. Hoping that the whole urban area is wholly served by public transportation and biking. I hate cars, noise and pollution!

yostrovs 7y ago
When I visited Paris, it was the scooters that annoyed me to no end. They sounded like two strokes and were everywhere. Will they be banned too?
- baud147258 7y ago
  Well, the scooters delivering their burgers and sushis to the hipsters voting for the current mayor, so it's rather unlikely.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    I see a lot of downvotes, but no coherent answers. Seems like I hit a nerve.

dbeley 7y ago

Most of commuters from other counties use public transportation, not cars.

hrktb 7y ago

> while commuters from other counties had to add some time to their commute and were furious. Commuting by car to Paris is mostly for near counties (with real estate prices not that far from Paris. Puteaux or Boulogne people are in average well set) or people living very far but are paid enough to spend an hour and half in their car. The general population takes buses and trains to commute, as parking in Paris is also a PITA. I was mildly amused to hear that our company in the middle of Paris only provides underground parking places to high level managers, and I can’t imagine renting a parking place somewhere else is any cheap.

rsynnott 7y ago

I think this is a problem with any disproportionately large city. But I’m not sure there’s a great solution, because the pseudo-Paris areas here presumably want their autonomy. In Ireland, a country of under 5 million, all of the local authority decisions for the central bit of Dublin are made by Dublin City Council, which covers half a million people. But that’s largely an arbitrary distinction; the metropolitan area mostly covers three other local authorities and leaks into some others, and contains 1.5 million people. The only sign you have that you’ve wandered outside DCC in any direction is that the traffic lights are a bit different. And ‘greater Dublin’, which encompasses the adjacent local authorities, contains over 2 million. And that’s not the end of it; lots of people outside Greater Dublin commute in. So, DCC makes decisions that impact at least 2 million people, but is elected by a population of 500k. I think there’s actually an argument for merging the four Dublin local authorities, but even that would be a political nightmare. Extending DCC to cover half the country is clearly not viable, and would not be accepted. But given that, it’s natural for DCC to care more about making the city work for people who live in its area and who vote for it than those commuting in from far away.