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Simply "being promoted" won't work past a certain point. You will get called out in competitive workplaces if you don't have actual skills. Yes, having an aggre

by jb3689 7y ago

Simply "being promoted" won't work past a certain point. You will get called out in competitive workplaces if you don't have actual skills. Yes, having an aggressive personality can get you promoted. In my opinion the best was to maximize your income is to work hard building real skills and then join a top, high potential company as a highly experienced/expert hire Also the grind is painful. You're better off minimizing your expenses (low CoL) and living on a modest wage in my opinion

_nalply 7y ago
That's what you hope I'm afraid.
candiodari 7y ago
The problem is ... where to go once you do this? Let's say you get (very) high wage sorted. Not C-level, so close to $200k, and over a long time it'll go to $350k. You get some side income through the stock market and property (which as it turns out was the right choice: property works better with $ (because mortgages have ridiculous leverage and are very low risk), stock market works a lot better with $$$, and there's a large space in between where property matters only in that owning the place you live in helps a lot). You do the tax optimization (which matters more and more the further you get, and starts being the main factor at a surprisingly "low" wage. I guarantee that anyone making $100k can make more with tax optimization than with a promotion). But promotion, even in the very best of places, with quite good taxes, has very diminishing returns. A promotion takes new skills, more work, and let's say a 10% bump in salary (higher percentage increases seem to only happen at the low end. I got a 180% wage increase at one point but now that would be ridiculous). I mean I guess there's the executive promotion but I have no idea how people get that. These executives certainly aren't smarter or more effective than I am, so ... There comes a point, surprisingly low (let's say $200k a year), where chasing promotion is just not worth it, as a 10% before tax raise will only get you 2-3% actual more money. And generally speaking even the $350k or so I'll eventually probably get to will only get me $60k or so more income. I get the impression the only real way up at this point is starting a company, or at least starting to work for a company I have significant ownership in. Plus I fantasize it comes with more independence (although I lead teams now for more than a decade. Any illusions of control you have as a TL or manager didn't really survive). Truth is that I'd be surprisingly strongly affected if I were to get fired, and while I've always been able to find a new higher paying job rapidly (I left a lot of jobs early in my career because I found something better. "A lot" is about 6 btw, over now 17 years, not counting effective job changes while consulting), and I hate the risk this represents. I also don't think that'll happen, but there are certainly circumstances that would cause just this. So starting a company. Something. But how to do that?
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Sounds reasonable. Except for the 'more work' part? I don't have any evidence that management works any harder than Engineering.

by jb3689 7y ago

_nalply 7y ago

That's what you hope I'm afraid.

candiodari 7y ago

The problem is ... where to go once you do this? Let's say you get (very) high wage sorted. Not C-level, so close to $200k, and over a long time it'll go to $350k. You get some side income through the stock market and property (which as it turns out was the right choice: property works better with $ (because mortgages have ridiculous leverage and are very low risk), stock market works a lot better with $$$, and there's a large space in between where property matters only in that owning the place you live in helps a lot). You do the tax optimization (which matters more and more the further you get, and starts being the main factor at a surprisingly "low" wage. I guarantee that anyone making $100k can make more with tax optimization than with a promotion). But promotion, even in the very best of places, with quite good taxes, has very diminishing returns. A promotion takes new skills, more work, and let's say a 10% bump in salary (higher percentage increases seem to only happen at the low end. I got a 180% wage increase at one point but now that would be ridiculous). I mean I guess there's the executive promotion but I have no idea how people get that. These executives certainly aren't smarter or more effective than I am, so ... There comes a point, surprisingly low (let's say $200k a year), where chasing promotion is just not worth it, as a 10% before tax raise will only get you 2-3% actual more money. And generally speaking even the $350k or so I'll eventually probably get to will only get me $60k or so more income. I get the impression the only real way up at this point is starting a company, or at least starting to work for a company I have significant ownership in. Plus I fantasize it comes with more independence (although I lead teams now for more than a decade. Any illusions of control you have as a TL or manager didn't really survive). Truth is that I'd be surprisingly strongly affected if I were to get fired, and while I've always been able to find a new higher paying job rapidly (I left a lot of jobs early in my career because I found something better. "A lot" is about 6 btw, over now 17 years, not counting effective job changes while consulting), and I hate the risk this represents. I also don't think that'll happen, but there are certainly circumstances that would cause just this. So starting a company. Something. But how to do that?

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Sounds reasonable. Except for the 'more work' part? I don't have any evidence that management works any harder than Engineering.