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>"even here in America" Not to derail the conversation, byt why the 'even'? 24h-stores seem like an inherently american concept to me (I'm german, so France is

>"even here in America" Not to derail the conversation, byt why the 'even'? 24h-stores seem like an inherently american concept to me (I'm german, so France is right around the corner)

2019-nCoV 7y ago
The US 24h culture pales in comparison to that of East Asia.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Not to derail the conversation, byt why the 'even'? Well, you might notice that even though you put two different sets of quotation marks on it, the text you're attributing to me isn't what I wrote. It's "even" because I'm contrasting an urban environment, where 24-hour stores are a baseline expectation, with a suburban environment, where they aren't but we have them anyway.
- hans1729 7y ago
  My bad, that was inappropriate. That being said: I wouldn't call them a baseline expectation in urban environments. I live in a city of 250k people, and I don't think we have a 24h-store here.
mschuster91 7y ago
When it comes to opening times of stores, us Germans are way behind everybody else...
- luckylion 7y ago
  Need to make sure that restocking is done during the day or the customers won't notice that you have to move large containers through the store! I understand that most stores would see little traffic at night, but on the other hand they'd also not need full staff, and they absolutely could do all the maintenance work at night. It annoys me similarly as "everybody must have the same two days off". So inefficient.
  - seszett 7y ago
    Having the same days off for most people makes for a more cohesive society where people have more time to interact with each other. Or at least, that's the idea. Knowing families where people have different working hours or working days, it really takes a toll on interpersonal relations.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      I get that argument, but I do believe that it applies more so to a past idea of society where everybody is close to average, i.e. mostly families with children. It makes sense to time days off for adults with those of children. The same goes for school holidays being timed with harvest season because plenty of children had to help on the family farm etc. That's not our current reality, the percentage of singles and childless couples is growing and they don't need to be timed with school hours. Adding flexibility would make everything run more smoothly. Right now we're having all the commercial traffic on 5/7 days and all the leisure time traffic on 2/7 days. Offices are empty 2/7 days. Distributing that more evenly would benefit everyone. Less traffic during rush hour, less overrun parks on your day off, less crowded super markets and packages wouldn't need to be considered lost if they're diverted to the local branch where queues are usually longer than those in front of apple stores when new iphones get released.
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    My local (small, urban) supermarket isn’t even 24 hours (7am to 11pm, I think) and is constantly restocking throughout the day anyway. If sales volume is high enough, that’s presumably necessary.
- yodsanklai 7y ago
  I wouldn't say "behind" in that context. I do appreciate the convenience of 24h stores, but I don't see them as a progress for workers rights.
  - briandear 7y ago
    If the owner of a store wants to open it for 24 hours and he or employees are willing to work, how is that bad for workers rights? What’s bad for workers rights are people that would like the freedom to work a late shift or early shift but can’t because some do-gooder is trying to “protect” grown adults from making their own decisions.
    - yodsanklai 7y ago
      > If the owner of a store wants to open it for 24 hours and he or employees are willing to work, how is that bad for workers rights? That would be fine, but what is going to happen is that many workers will have to work night shifts unwillingly. It's bad for their physical and mental health. Suppose you have a town with two stores. First store is willing to open 24 hours. Second store may have to do the same to compensate the loss of customers, and the workers there may have to work night shift even if they don't want to (I actually witnessed it first hand in my neighbourhood). This is called a negative externality, and it is a well-known defect of free market. Even though you would think that opening a store 24h only impacts you and your customers, it negatively impacts other people. This is a subjective opinion, but I would argue that the convenience of having 24h stores isn't worth the cost for the workers. Unfortunately, I think that I'm in the minority and that eventually we'll cross that line in Europe too, and it'll be hard to go back.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    I generally agree with you, but it's utterly ridiculous that supermarkets etc. close at 8 already in some states (e.g. Bavaria). It would make more sense to keep themmopen until at least 9 or 10.

>"even here in America" Not to derail the conversation, byt why the 'even'? 24h-stores seem like an inherently american concept to me (I'm german, so France is right around the corner)

2019-nCoV 7y ago

The US 24h culture pales in comparison to that of East Asia.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> Not to derail the conversation, byt why the 'even'? Well, you might notice that even though you put two different sets of quotation marks on it, the text you're attributing to me isn't what I wrote. It's "even" because I'm contrasting an urban environment, where 24-hour stores are a baseline expectation, with a suburban environment, where they aren't but we have them anyway.

hans1729 7y ago
My bad, that was inappropriate. That being said: I wouldn't call them a baseline expectation in urban environments. I live in a city of 250k people, and I don't think we have a 24h-store here.

mschuster91 7y ago

When it comes to opening times of stores, us Germans are way behind everybody else...

luckylion 7y ago
Need to make sure that restocking is done during the day or the customers won't notice that you have to move large containers through the store! I understand that most stores would see little traffic at night, but on the other hand they'd also not need full staff, and they absolutely could do all the maintenance work at night. It annoys me similarly as "everybody must have the same two days off". So inefficient.
- seszett 7y ago
  Having the same days off for most people makes for a more cohesive society where people have more time to interact with each other. Or at least, that's the idea. Knowing families where people have different working hours or working days, it really takes a toll on interpersonal relations.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    I get that argument, but I do believe that it applies more so to a past idea of society where everybody is close to average, i.e. mostly families with children. It makes sense to time days off for adults with those of children. The same goes for school holidays being timed with harvest season because plenty of children had to help on the family farm etc. That's not our current reality, the percentage of singles and childless couples is growing and they don't need to be timed with school hours. Adding flexibility would make everything run more smoothly. Right now we're having all the commercial traffic on 5/7 days and all the leisure time traffic on 2/7 days. Offices are empty 2/7 days. Distributing that more evenly would benefit everyone. Less traffic during rush hour, less overrun parks on your day off, less crowded super markets and packages wouldn't need to be considered lost if they're diverted to the local branch where queues are usually longer than those in front of apple stores when new iphones get released.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  My local (small, urban) supermarket isn’t even 24 hours (7am to 11pm, I think) and is constantly restocking throughout the day anyway. If sales volume is high enough, that’s presumably necessary.
yodsanklai 7y ago
I wouldn't say "behind" in that context. I do appreciate the convenience of 24h stores, but I don't see them as a progress for workers rights.
- briandear 7y ago
  If the owner of a store wants to open it for 24 hours and he or employees are willing to work, how is that bad for workers rights? What’s bad for workers rights are people that would like the freedom to work a late shift or early shift but can’t because some do-gooder is trying to “protect” grown adults from making their own decisions.
  - yodsanklai 7y ago
    > If the owner of a store wants to open it for 24 hours and he or employees are willing to work, how is that bad for workers rights? That would be fine, but what is going to happen is that many workers will have to work night shifts unwillingly. It's bad for their physical and mental health. Suppose you have a town with two stores. First store is willing to open 24 hours. Second store may have to do the same to compensate the loss of customers, and the workers there may have to work night shift even if they don't want to (I actually witnessed it first hand in my neighbourhood). This is called a negative externality, and it is a well-known defect of free market. Even though you would think that opening a store 24h only impacts you and your customers, it negatively impacts other people. This is a subjective opinion, but I would argue that the convenience of having 24h stores isn't worth the cost for the workers. Unfortunately, I think that I'm in the minority and that eventually we'll cross that line in Europe too, and it'll be hard to go back.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  I generally agree with you, but it's utterly ridiculous that supermarkets etc. close at 8 already in some states (e.g. Bavaria). It would make more sense to keep themmopen until at least 9 or 10.