3 ms·

I wouldn't be seen dead using Google's GApps on my mobile. Before even inserting a SIM card for the first time on a new phone, I disable or remove all of Googl

I wouldn't be seen dead using Google's GApps on my mobile. Before even inserting a SIM card for the first time on a new phone, I disable or remove all of Google's GApps. (If they can't all be fully disabled, then the phone is rooted and they're just uninstalled/removed completely). I find it ironic and rather quite delightful that the US Government is in some small way aiding and abetting what many of us would love to see happen which is for the public to reclaim its public telephone system back from Big Tech, Google et al who usurped and monopolized it without our or anyone's permission. That Huawei is the reason is all the better. Huawei won't take this lying down, and having seen how capable the company is and what it's done to date, it'll almost certainly find a solution/be successful. When Huawei is seen to be successful sans Google this hopefully may inspire others to do the same (or encourage new startups not already encumbered by Google's contracts/terms of service which make it difficult for current players—which, incidentally, is a monopolistic, restrictive trade practice). As Governments have consistently failed to protect both us and the internet from these damn monopolies then perhaps this unusual form leverage is the only chance we'll get. Thus, we should take full advantage of the situation whilst it lasts.

thekyle 7y ago
I'll be interested to see how Huawei responds. They already sell a lot of phones in China with no GApps so they must have their own ecosystem of sorts. That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does.
- hilbert42 7y ago
  "That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does." Of course, from my experience—having removed both GApps and Huawei crapware from its phones in the past—you are absolutely correct. Not only is this time-consuming and difficult (as one has to root the phone) but also it's usually outside the capability (or desire) of most users. Even then, one has to assume it's not a complete solution but only an amelioration thereof (as we don't have access to the source code). My rationale is that often one finds that solutions to problems are quite circuitous and things can actually get worse along the way before improving. Whether that's likely in this instance remains to be seen (it seems to me that taking any possible opportunity was better than none).
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  Their best move is to make WeChat the operating system. Hell, there are already >50 000 mini-programs that run inside WeChat. Then get maps from the Europeans. Then sponsor the development of the top 20 local apps in their top 50 markets. Then zero rate chat in selected markets. And bribe every third world regulator. This is what the British keep the channel islands for.
thedance 7y ago
Hold up bro. The only thing you've ever posted on HN - and you posted it a lot - is that you never put a SIM in a phone.
- datashow 7y ago
  Maybe he will start with putting a SIM in a Huawei phone.
- hilbert42 7y ago
  That's absolutely true—all my personal internet-accessible phones never have SIMs installed, internet access is always via Wi-Fi via external routers (which, of course, do have SIMs). Moreover, my own personal phone (with a separate number and different carrier) is a dumb phone sans internet access altogether. I would further add that as a comms person I work with phones regularly, for this I have separate test accounts and in some instances SIMs are used in them directly (especially if one is testing the phone's wireless circuitry etc.—obviously without a SIM[1] you cannot fully test the device). Nevertheless, such phones are nearly always rooted and have GApps removed (or otherwise have them disabled/hibernated). BTW, I like people like you who actually take a rigorous approach to what people say and take the time to cross reference their various comments. It's even nice to know someone has taken the time to read what I've written. __ [1] For testing I also use 'dead' SIMs (ones whose telco accounts are now defunct) as well as prepaid not-yet-activated accounts. Often 'test' SIMs are useful for checking the phone's GSM/HSPA/LTE electronics (as limited communications can even established with the telco). Using SIMs that are incapable of carrying normal data traffic has the advantage that the phone can be tested without information such as its serial or IMEI number being sent to Google. (And occasionally I've even asked telcos to disconnect both data and SMS services to avoid 'accidents'.) I would add that if someone wants me to either maintain or root his or her phone and the owner has yet to provide me with a working SIM (which happens often enough) then I do so with one that cannot access or send data across the internet. As I see it, I don't have the right to link someone's phone that doesn’t belong to me to any other account or phone number that does not belong to the owner.
  - numpad0 7y ago
nsoonhui 7y ago
Quite ironic for you to place so much hope in Huawei to end Google monopoly. Huawei as an entity with ties to China government (someone who has one of the worst human rights and privacy track records in the world ) should deserve less trust and hope than Google. I don't know how you can think otherwise.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  Perhaps, just perhaps he is considering their competence to help in end Google's monopoly, rather than their ethics - which is orthogonal and irrelevent to the task.

thekyle 7y ago

I'll be interested to see how Huawei responds. They already sell a lot of phones in China with no GApps so they must have their own ecosystem of sorts. That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does.

hilbert42 7y ago
"That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does." Of course, from my experience—having removed both GApps and Huawei crapware from its phones in the past—you are absolutely correct. Not only is this time-consuming and difficult (as one has to root the phone) but also it's usually outside the capability (or desire) of most users. Even then, one has to assume it's not a complete solution but only an amelioration thereof (as we don't have access to the source code). My rationale is that often one finds that solutions to problems are quite circuitous and things can actually get worse along the way before improving. Whether that's likely in this instance remains to be seen (it seems to me that taking any possible opportunity was better than none).
pinkfoot 7y ago
Their best move is to make WeChat the operating system. Hell, there are already >50 000 mini-programs that run inside WeChat. Then get maps from the Europeans. Then sponsor the development of the top 20 local apps in their top 50 markets. Then zero rate chat in selected markets. And bribe every third world regulator. This is what the British keep the channel islands for.

thedance 7y ago

Hold up bro. The only thing you've ever posted on HN - and you posted it a lot - is that you never put a SIM in a phone.

datashow 7y ago
Maybe he will start with putting a SIM in a Huawei phone.
hilbert42 7y ago
That's absolutely true—all my personal internet-accessible phones never have SIMs installed, internet access is always via Wi-Fi via external routers (which, of course, do have SIMs). Moreover, my own personal phone (with a separate number and different carrier) is a dumb phone sans internet access altogether. I would further add that as a comms person I work with phones regularly, for this I have separate test accounts and in some instances SIMs are used in them directly (especially if one is testing the phone's wireless circuitry etc.—obviously without a SIM[1] you cannot fully test the device). Nevertheless, such phones are nearly always rooted and have GApps removed (or otherwise have them disabled/hibernated). BTW, I like people like you who actually take a rigorous approach to what people say and take the time to cross reference their various comments. It's even nice to know someone has taken the time to read what I've written. __ [1] For testing I also use 'dead' SIMs (ones whose telco accounts are now defunct) as well as prepaid not-yet-activated accounts. Often 'test' SIMs are useful for checking the phone's GSM/HSPA/LTE electronics (as limited communications can even established with the telco). Using SIMs that are incapable of carrying normal data traffic has the advantage that the phone can be tested without information such as its serial or IMEI number being sent to Google. (And occasionally I've even asked telcos to disconnect both data and SMS services to avoid 'accidents'.) I would add that if someone wants me to either maintain or root his or her phone and the owner has yet to provide me with a working SIM (which happens often enough) then I do so with one that cannot access or send data across the internet. As I see it, I don't have the right to link someone's phone that doesn’t belong to me to any other account or phone number that does not belong to the owner.
- numpad0 7y ago

nsoonhui 7y ago

Quite ironic for you to place so much hope in Huawei to end Google monopoly. Huawei as an entity with ties to China government (someone who has one of the worst human rights and privacy track records in the world ) should deserve less trust and hope than Google. I don't know how you can think otherwise.

pinkfoot 7y ago
Perhaps, just perhaps he is considering their competence to help in end Google's monopoly, rather than their ethics - which is orthogonal and irrelevent to the task.