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Curious: Why do sites like HN and Reddit, those most vulnerable to abuse by multiple accounts, don’t require mandatory email or even phone verification? Let pe

Curious: Why do sites like HN and Reddit, those most vulnerable to abuse by multiple accounts, don’t require mandatory email or even phone verification? Let people have multiple accounts for privacy if they want, but disallow multiple posts/comments/votes from the same person.

cameronbrown 7y ago
I suppose because people _will_ get around these restrictions if they set their mind to it - so there may be slightly less spam, but at the cost of everybody's privacy.
scarejunba 7y ago
Because HN is where YC cloisters us idiots while the guys who know what they're doing are on YC BF.
- etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
  Alright, what is YC BF anyways?
  - dang 7y ago
    It stands for Bookface, which is a forum that Garry Tan created years ago for YC founders. It's a wonderful resource for the YC alumni network, but it's not an alternative to HN. Most YC alums are on both. What's typical to see on Bookface are founders asking and answering questions about specific challenges, people launching their startups (that part is a bit overlappy with HN, but the discussions are smaller and I would say narrower), people looking to hire or get hired, people asking for intros, posts about apartments and offices for rent, announcements of events...that kind of thing.
dang 7y ago
I can't speak for Reddit, but on HN the idea is not to place barriers in front of anyone who wants to join. If we demand that people jump through extra hoops, many will simply bail instead, including many who were inspired to jump in and comment because of something they saw on the site. That sort of spontaneous participation is precious. It keeps things fresh and makes HN more interesting. So although, yes, we incur a lot of costs (and pain) from spammers and trolls by being so open, the good things we gain are worth more. To pick a couple of famous names, I doubt that Alan Kay or Peter Norvig would have bothered with HN if we'd placed up-front demands on them. Countless experts have shown up here over the years to create accounts and share firsthand about what they know. Here's a recent example that sticks in my mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22007115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22007115. It's particularly common for project creators or article authors to show up and comment on their work. We don't want to do anything to make that less likely. HN is fortunate in that we're not under pressure to monetize users, squeeze more engagement out of them, or optimize them in any way. The factors that drive companies into corralling their users and eking information out of them don't apply here. The only thing we need to do is have HN be interesting. An open community, assuming it can be persuaded not to destroy itself, is more likely to be interesting.
pixl97 7y ago
Also, I'd suggest required phone/email as the end user seems to be a risk. For example my Twitter account is locked because I never gave a phone. Then a year later it comes out attackers can figure out your number. Not worth it to me. Also, I can get an SMS over VIOP for cheap for a limited number of days. If I were an attacker the email/phone verification does nothing to stop me.

cameronbrown 7y ago

I suppose because people _will_ get around these restrictions if they set their mind to it - so there may be slightly less spam, but at the cost of everybody's privacy.

scarejunba 7y ago

Because HN is where YC cloisters us idiots while the guys who know what they're doing are on YC BF.

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
Alright, what is YC BF anyways?
- dang 7y ago
  It stands for Bookface, which is a forum that Garry Tan created years ago for YC founders. It's a wonderful resource for the YC alumni network, but it's not an alternative to HN. Most YC alums are on both. What's typical to see on Bookface are founders asking and answering questions about specific challenges, people launching their startups (that part is a bit overlappy with HN, but the discussions are smaller and I would say narrower), people looking to hire or get hired, people asking for intros, posts about apartments and offices for rent, announcements of events...that kind of thing.

dang 7y ago

I can't speak for Reddit, but on HN the idea is not to place barriers in front of anyone who wants to join. If we demand that people jump through extra hoops, many will simply bail instead, including many who were inspired to jump in and comment because of something they saw on the site. That sort of spontaneous participation is precious. It keeps things fresh and makes HN more interesting. So although, yes, we incur a lot of costs (and pain) from spammers and trolls by being so open, the good things we gain are worth more. To pick a couple of famous names, I doubt that Alan Kay or Peter Norvig would have bothered with HN if we'd placed up-front demands on them. Countless experts have shown up here over the years to create accounts and share firsthand about what they know. Here's a recent example that sticks in my mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22007115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22007115. It's particularly common for project creators or article authors to show up and comment on their work. We don't want to do anything to make that less likely. HN is fortunate in that we're not under pressure to monetize users, squeeze more engagement out of them, or optimize them in any way. The factors that drive companies into corralling their users and eking information out of them don't apply here. The only thing we need to do is have HN be interesting. An open community, assuming it can be persuaded not to destroy itself, is more likely to be interesting.

pixl97 7y ago

Also, I'd suggest required phone/email as the end user seems to be a risk. For example my Twitter account is locked because I never gave a phone. Then a year later it comes out attackers can figure out your number. Not worth it to me. Also, I can get an SMS over VIOP for cheap for a limited number of days. If I were an attacker the email/phone verification does nothing to stop me.