5 ms·

Answering your questions on Huawei devices and Google services

21 points by sohkamyung 7y ago

aneutron 7y ago
That is akin to effectively eliminating a market player overnight. It's like saying "Sure, you can still sell bikes, but you can't include Wheels. Oh and using after market wheels is not recommended." This somehow feels very sad and unfortunate, especially given the amazing handsets that Huawei puts out (P30 Pro). It's a shame really. Also goes to show what happens when monopoly over anything is established. Especially in this case, where your phone is almost unusable as most publishers won't opt to publish on 17 different platforms.
- hilbert42 7y ago
  "This somehow feels very sad and unfortunate, especially given the amazing handsets that Huawei puts out (P30 Pro). ..." Well, it's all in the eyes of beholder, isn't it. Franky, as I see it, that P30 Pro won't have Google's crappy spyware installed is an absolute blessing (it saves those who don't want Google spying on them a great deal of trouble by not having to root the phone, which is now quite difficult given that Huawei has stopped handing out keys to unlock the bootloader). [BTW, I don't like Huawei one iota as a company but from my experience from using its technology—both phones and other communications equipment—I have found that it works very well indeed. It's often the small attention to detail that counts and that makes all the difference: for example, the OTG port on many of Huawei's smartphones reads NTFS drives directly out of the box without any mucking about—most other phones do not (they're usually limited to FAT32 and exFAT), which is a damn pain! In the past, this feature has been so important to me that I've chosen Huawei over other brands specifically because of it.]
  - datashow 7y ago
    > P30 Pro won't have Google's crappy spyware installed Yes, but it has its own crappy spyware installed.
  - 29083011397778 7y ago
    > it saves those who don't want Google spying on them a great deal of trouble by not having to root the phone You don't actually need root anyways. XDA has a walkthrough on disabling system APKs [1] - meaning one is able to (and I have, on my BlackBerry KeyOne) disable Google Play Services, the Services Framework, Play Store, and anything else you don't want running. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-android/ https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-...
    - hilbert42 7y ago
      Thanks for raising that, XDA provides much useful info and it is often the first place to start. However there's many instances where certain apps cannot be uninstalled or disabled. For example, often Google Play Services cannot be disabled let alone uninstalled without rooting the phone.
- weinzierl 7y ago
  It is even worse than that. If I was an Android user I'd probably think twice before buying and new Chinese phone. Today it is Huawai, tomorrow some other Chinese manufacturer. Even if this kind of thinking is unfounded, it will have chilling effect on Chinese phone sales overall.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
...this didn't answer anything for me. Can or can't you sideload Google services?
- badrabbit 7y ago
  Says it will not work reliably.
- hilbert42 7y ago
  It will depend on (a) the state [upgrade status] of your phone and (b) the version of GApps. If you have both a phone and GApps of similar vintage (similar/compatible release dates, etc.) which were developed and released before this imposition was forced upon Google then it should update. The way I read that document is that code generated from now on will test the hardware and if it's found to be incompatible with the directive then it will not install. Simply, I read this statement to mean that for the foreseeable future you will not be able to sideload current or newer release of GApps onto Huawei phones. The only true way to find out is to try it.
- Lyrex 7y ago
  I'm not sure if the answer maybe got updated or not, but for me the text in bols clearly says that sideload will not be possible.
hilbert42 7y ago
I wouldn't be seen dead using Google's GApps on my mobile. Before even inserting a SIM card for the first time on a new phone, I disable or remove all of Google's GApps. (If they can't all be fully disabled, then the phone is rooted and they're just uninstalled/removed completely). I find it ironic and rather quite delightful that the US Government is in some small way aiding and abetting what many of us would love to see happen which is for the public to reclaim its public telephone system back from Big Tech, Google et al who usurped and monopolized it without our or anyone's permission. That Huawei is the reason is all the better. Huawei won't take this lying down, and having seen how capable the company is and what it's done to date, it'll almost certainly find a solution/be successful. When Huawei is seen to be successful sans Google this hopefully may inspire others to do the same (or encourage new startups not already encumbered by Google's contracts/terms of service which make it difficult for current players—which, incidentally, is a monopolistic, restrictive trade practice). As Governments have consistently failed to protect both us and the internet from these damn monopolies then perhaps this unusual form leverage is the only chance we'll get. Thus, we should take full advantage of the situation whilst it lasts.
- thekyle 7y ago
  I'll be interested to see how Huawei responds. They already sell a lot of phones in China with no GApps so they must have their own ecosystem of sorts. That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does.
  - hilbert42 7y ago
    "That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does." Of course, from my experience—having removed both GApps and Huawei crapware from its phones in the past—you are absolutely correct. Not only is this time-consuming and difficult (as one has to root the phone) but also it's usually outside the capability (or desire) of most users. Even then, one has to assume it's not a complete solution but only an amelioration thereof (as we don't have access to the source code). My rationale is that often one finds that solutions to problems are quite circuitous and things can actually get worse along the way before improving. Whether that's likely in this instance remains to be seen (it seems to me that taking any possible opportunity was better than none).
masayoshis_son 7y ago
It's difficult to imagine Huawei allowing themselves to be forced out of the lucrative international market for mobile devices, especially as they are bound to remain a strong player within China, where Google is irrelevant. Instead, they will now be more inclined to invest in freeing themselves from Google's stranglehold, and be more brazen about as they have not much to lose. In particular, I wonder will this affect Huawei's membership in the "Open Handset Alliance," [1] which (ironically and contrary to its name) is about constraining how its members can release Android devices in exchange for Google's blessing. Other Chinese manufacturers also seem to have got the message and are pushing with initiatives like the "Global Developer Service Alliance," [2] an app distribution mechanism independent of the Play Store. Although it's too early to say if anything comes out of it this time (similar attemps have failed before), one way or another this will lead to more competition in the long run, which is a welcome development for all the users, regardless if they ever entertained the thought of purchasing a Huawei device. Separately, the literal reading of Google's statement is also that side-loading Google Apps on top of AOSP or LineageOS should be expected to cease working anytime. So far they have been allowing a way out on a per-device, per-account basis, [3] so it's interesting to see whether they'll be willing to close that loophole now, although it seems to be hardly in Google's interest and contrary to the very purpose of Android. 1. http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html 2. https://www.gdsa.com/en https://www.gdsa.com/en 3. https://lineageos.org/Google-Play-Certification/ https://lineageos.org/Google-Play-Certification/
hhtoyou 7y ago
Need Huawei health complete data export to Google fit

21 points by sohkamyung 7y ago

That is akin to effectively eliminating a market player overnight. It's like saying "Sure, you can still sell bikes, but you can't include Wheels. Oh and using after market wheels is not recommended." This somehow feels very sad and unfortunate, especially given the amazing handsets that Huawei puts out (P30 Pro). It's a shame really. Also goes to show what happens when monopoly over anything is established. Especially in this case, where your phone is almost unusable as most publishers won't opt to publish on 17 different platforms.

hilbert42 7y ago
"This somehow feels very sad and unfortunate, especially given the amazing handsets that Huawei puts out (P30 Pro). ..." Well, it's all in the eyes of beholder, isn't it. Franky, as I see it, that P30 Pro won't have Google's crappy spyware installed is an absolute blessing (it saves those who don't want Google spying on them a great deal of trouble by not having to root the phone, which is now quite difficult given that Huawei has stopped handing out keys to unlock the bootloader). [BTW, I don't like Huawei one iota as a company but from my experience from using its technology—both phones and other communications equipment—I have found that it works very well indeed. It's often the small attention to detail that counts and that makes all the difference: for example, the OTG port on many of Huawei's smartphones reads NTFS drives directly out of the box without any mucking about—most other phones do not (they're usually limited to FAT32 and exFAT), which is a damn pain! In the past, this feature has been so important to me that I've chosen Huawei over other brands specifically because of it.]
- datashow 7y ago
  > P30 Pro won't have Google's crappy spyware installed Yes, but it has its own crappy spyware installed.
- 29083011397778 7y ago
  > it saves those who don't want Google spying on them a great deal of trouble by not having to root the phone You don't actually need root anyways. XDA has a walkthrough on disabling system APKs [1] - meaning one is able to (and I have, on my BlackBerry KeyOne) disable Google Play Services, the Services Framework, Play Store, and anything else you don't want running. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-android/ https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-...
  - hilbert42 7y ago
    Thanks for raising that, XDA provides much useful info and it is often the first place to start. However there's many instances where certain apps cannot be uninstalled or disabled. For example, often Google Play Services cannot be disabled let alone uninstalled without rooting the phone.
weinzierl 7y ago
It is even worse than that. If I was an Android user I'd probably think twice before buying and new Chinese phone. Today it is Huawai, tomorrow some other Chinese manufacturer. Even if this kind of thinking is unfounded, it will have chilling effect on Chinese phone sales overall.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

...this didn't answer anything for me. Can or can't you sideload Google services?

badrabbit 7y ago
Says it will not work reliably.
hilbert42 7y ago
It will depend on (a) the state [upgrade status] of your phone and (b) the version of GApps. If you have both a phone and GApps of similar vintage (similar/compatible release dates, etc.) which were developed and released before this imposition was forced upon Google then it should update. The way I read that document is that code generated from now on will test the hardware and if it's found to be incompatible with the directive then it will not install. Simply, I read this statement to mean that for the foreseeable future you will not be able to sideload current or newer release of GApps onto Huawei phones. The only true way to find out is to try it.
Lyrex 7y ago
I'm not sure if the answer maybe got updated or not, but for me the text in bols clearly says that sideload will not be possible.

hilbert42 7y ago

I wouldn't be seen dead using Google's GApps on my mobile. Before even inserting a SIM card for the first time on a new phone, I disable or remove all of Google's GApps. (If they can't all be fully disabled, then the phone is rooted and they're just uninstalled/removed completely). I find it ironic and rather quite delightful that the US Government is in some small way aiding and abetting what many of us would love to see happen which is for the public to reclaim its public telephone system back from Big Tech, Google et al who usurped and monopolized it without our or anyone's permission. That Huawei is the reason is all the better. Huawei won't take this lying down, and having seen how capable the company is and what it's done to date, it'll almost certainly find a solution/be successful. When Huawei is seen to be successful sans Google this hopefully may inspire others to do the same (or encourage new startups not already encumbered by Google's contracts/terms of service which make it difficult for current players—which, incidentally, is a monopolistic, restrictive trade practice). As Governments have consistently failed to protect both us and the internet from these damn monopolies then perhaps this unusual form leverage is the only chance we'll get. Thus, we should take full advantage of the situation whilst it lasts.

thekyle 7y ago
I'll be interested to see how Huawei responds. They already sell a lot of phones in China with no GApps so they must have their own ecosystem of sorts. That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does.
- hilbert42 7y ago
  "That said, I suspect that whatever Huawei does will be just as bad (or worse?) for user privacy and control than what Google currently does." Of course, from my experience—having removed both GApps and Huawei crapware from its phones in the past—you are absolutely correct. Not only is this time-consuming and difficult (as one has to root the phone) but also it's usually outside the capability (or desire) of most users. Even then, one has to assume it's not a complete solution but only an amelioration thereof (as we don't have access to the source code). My rationale is that often one finds that solutions to problems are quite circuitous and things can actually get worse along the way before improving. Whether that's likely in this instance remains to be seen (it seems to me that taking any possible opportunity was better than none).

masayoshis_son 7y ago

It's difficult to imagine Huawei allowing themselves to be forced out of the lucrative international market for mobile devices, especially as they are bound to remain a strong player within China, where Google is irrelevant. Instead, they will now be more inclined to invest in freeing themselves from Google's stranglehold, and be more brazen about as they have not much to lose. In particular, I wonder will this affect Huawei's membership in the "Open Handset Alliance," [1] which (ironically and contrary to its name) is about constraining how its members can release Android devices in exchange for Google's blessing. Other Chinese manufacturers also seem to have got the message and are pushing with initiatives like the "Global Developer Service Alliance," [2] an app distribution mechanism independent of the Play Store. Although it's too early to say if anything comes out of it this time (similar attemps have failed before), one way or another this will lead to more competition in the long run, which is a welcome development for all the users, regardless if they ever entertained the thought of purchasing a Huawei device. Separately, the literal reading of Google's statement is also that side-loading Google Apps on top of AOSP or LineageOS should be expected to cease working anytime. So far they have been allowing a way out on a per-device, per-account basis, [3] so it's interesting to see whether they'll be willing to close that loophole now, although it seems to be hardly in Google's interest and contrary to the very purpose of Android. 1. http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html 2. https://www.gdsa.com/en https://www.gdsa.com/en 3. https://lineageos.org/Google-Play-Certification/ https://lineageos.org/Google-Play-Certification/

hhtoyou 7y ago

Need Huawei health complete data export to Google fit