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> there's a lot of unsavory undemocratic backroom dealing That's an extremely loaded word for negotiating consensus. It's as if populist parties are manned by

> there's a lot of unsavory undemocratic backroom dealing That's an extremely loaded word for negotiating consensus. It's as if populist parties are manned by opportunists who have no qualms to throw everyone under the bus if that gives them any advantage.

m0zg 7y ago
Well, if it's all above board, they shouldn't be worried about transparency then, so what Varoufakis is doing is totally OK, am I right? Except I think there will be unsavory stuff in it, or there wouldn't be any reason for him to disclose this.
- rumanator 7y ago
  > Well, if it's all above board, they shouldn't be worried about transparency then That's either extremely naive or disingenuous. It's quite frequent in negotiations that you have to concede parts that might be spinned as collosal political losses even if they are completely inoquous or even in line with the greater good or your political mid to long-term interests. The sovereign debt crisis is an excellent example, as even though it was in no one's best interests to let states go bankrupt, a hand full of member states were forced to navigate populist and extremist political parties and movements who were fundamentally opposed to both the EU, euro, and bailout processes who were spinning this issue to further their personal agenda. It's absurd to even assume that needlessly exposing your nation to this sort of manipulation is in anyone's best interests.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Who decides what is "greater good" though? Some unelected bureaucrat in the Brussels? A globalist cabal? Frau Merkel? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Why do you have so much trust in these "negotiations" that you don't even want to see what transpired in them?
    - rumanator 7y ago
      > Who decides what is "greater good" though? The people you voted and elected for that exact role of course. That's what being a democratic republic is all about.

m0zg 7y ago

Well, if it's all above board, they shouldn't be worried about transparency then, so what Varoufakis is doing is totally OK, am I right? Except I think there will be unsavory stuff in it, or there wouldn't be any reason for him to disclose this.

rumanator 7y ago
> Well, if it's all above board, they shouldn't be worried about transparency then That's either extremely naive or disingenuous. It's quite frequent in negotiations that you have to concede parts that might be spinned as collosal political losses even if they are completely inoquous or even in line with the greater good or your political mid to long-term interests. The sovereign debt crisis is an excellent example, as even though it was in no one's best interests to let states go bankrupt, a hand full of member states were forced to navigate populist and extremist political parties and movements who were fundamentally opposed to both the EU, euro, and bailout processes who were spinning this issue to further their personal agenda. It's absurd to even assume that needlessly exposing your nation to this sort of manipulation is in anyone's best interests.
- m0zg 7y ago
  Who decides what is "greater good" though? Some unelected bureaucrat in the Brussels? A globalist cabal? Frau Merkel? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Why do you have so much trust in these "negotiations" that you don't even want to see what transpired in them?
  - rumanator 7y ago
    > Who decides what is "greater good" though? The people you voted and elected for that exact role of course. That's what being a democratic republic is all about.