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> ISPs are different because of the lack of competition. If you don't like Google you can use Duck Duck Go. This is very much not the case both ways. Yes, you
by MadWombat 7y ago
> ISPs are different because of the lack of competition. If you don't like Google you can use Duck Duck Go.
This is very much not the case both ways. Yes, you could use DuckDuckGo instead of Google. But by the same logic you can always use some local DSL provider for your ISP. That is still a thing in most places. Of course, you will get 1.5Mbps instead of 50Mbps via Comcast, but it is not like DDG provides the same range of service as Google either.
- smichel17 7y agoThis is a bad comparison for 2 reasons: 1. [Opinion] As someone who uses DDG for 95%+ of my queries, the sacrifice is orders of magnitude less than using the local DSL provider in your example. 2. [Fact] Switching ISPs has a much higher cost. Switching back to Google for a few minutes if DDG isn't getting the job done is three keystrokes: " !g".
- AnthonyMouse 7y agoThere is also a third reason. Having the option of DSL doesn't do any good if the DSL provider doesn't respect privacy either. The question isn't whether a viable competitor exists, it's whether a viable competitor that respects privacy exists.
- penumbra2000 7y agoFurther to this, in Canada at least, all DSLs are subleasing lines in bulk from one single backbone provider (Bell). Competition is legislatively required but de facto questionably existent; in addition I would be surprised that Bell doesn't have all the aggregate data on traffic through subleasing ISPs as well.
- MadWombat 7y agoDoes DDG do spreadsheets? Document editing? Maps and direction finding? Video streaming? Photo management? DDG is nowhere near providing the services that Google provides.
- lotsofpulp 7y agoThey are not comparable at all.
- MadWombat 7y agoWhy? The original comment I was replying to claimed that Google is not a monopoly because you can easily replace Google with DDG. Which is bullshit. Google provides dozens of services (search, gdocs, photos, youtube, maps etc) where DDG only provides one. And even with the one it does provide, the search results are a lot less useful in about 50% of the searches I do. Which is why I don't use DDG even for search. So yeah, if you are going to argue that I can replace Google with DDG, I am going to argue that you can replace gigabit fiber connection with dial-up.
- sp332 7y agoInternet speed matters. If you can't watch streaming video, just for example you're not really getting the same service. The FCC divided access types by whether they are "broadband" or not (currently defined as 25 Mbps down / 3 Mbps up). The number of ISPs which offer broadband access to a given home is usually exactly 1.
- jaywalk 7y agoI'm always surprised when I see posts about only having a single option for broadband. I've got three options currently, with Verizon 5G Home literally a block away. I'm in a Detroit suburb, but I guess I'm an outlier.
- sp332 7y agoISPs are often given franchises by local governments. They agree to make service available to a certain % of residents, even if they are not individually profitable, and provide decent speeds to schools etc. In exchange they get access to rights-of-way to run cables and other things that make competition difficult. It's kind of a natural monopoly anyway since keeping up all the physical plant is expensive and there's no reason for multiple companies to do it, kind of like water or power companies.
- mirimir 7y agoThey could share infrastructure, as electricity providers do.
- penumbra2000 7y agoI think this could recreate the problem to some extent, as the shared infrastructure would be owned/administrated by someone, who then would have lots of aggregate data to sell.
- iso947 7y agoWhy is DSL so bad in the US? In the UK dsl runs at something like 70mbit. Sure that can drop if you’re a long way from the cabinet, but there’s nothing about dsl that’s particularly slow
- mindslight 7y agoThe market of "local DSL providers" no longer exists in the way you're invoking. While you used to be able to get a slower but customer-friendly circuit from eg Speakeasy or local dialup ISPs that moved into DSL, such general competition has withered. Outside of dense markets with decent competition, "DSL" has come to mean one single budget option from the incumbent phone company, also operating as a monopoly. The argument is also a bit of a red herring, because even with vibrant DSL competition, the same argument could be made by the monopoly ILEC against a privacy-respecting CLEC.