6 ms·

These companies are selling an addictive poison and continuing to get away with it -- never forget that.

by aerotwelve 7y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
Also alcohol companies as well.
- drdeca 7y ago
  I’m under the impression that alcohol is substantially less chemically addictive than Nicotine. Is that correct?
  - jowday 7y ago
    Substantially less chemically addictive, but causes a much higher degree of social harm for those who do get addicted.
    - ainiriand 7y ago
      Much more harmful even if you are not addicted. Take road accidents and fights for example.
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    This is actually a surprisingly difficult question to answer. If you had asked specifically about tobacco, you'd be correct. But, nicotine itself may not be as addictive as tobacco products are. Remember that tobacco contains many other compounds that influence how the body metabolizes things (MAOI's and such). Here's a link with some citations: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Addiction_TobNic.htm http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Addiction_TobNic.htm EDIT: My personal anecdote is that I tried vaping when the first 901 ecigs started to hit the US market: the idea was twofold. I wanted to assess whether there was any cognitive benefit in using nicotine through a cleaner delivery system and I also wanted to get my dad to quit smoking cigarettes. Both goals were failures, I found it too difficult to dose reliably using this method and the side effects weren't worth it to me. I did not find myself addicted after around a month of use.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I’m under the impression that alcohol is substantially less chemically addictive than Nicotine. Is that correct? Doesn't addictiveness vary from person to person?
  - aianus 7y ago
    You can die from quitting alcohol cold-turkey, which is not true for nicotine.
    - fenwick67 7y ago
      Was about to post this. They're really very different addictions. Nicotine withdrawal is mostly medically harmless.
    - drdeca 7y ago
      This is a good point, and I either didn’t know or forgot that
- stared 7y ago
  Most alcohol users (in many countries, the majority of the adult population) are not addicts. As far as I know, most cigarette and e-cigarette users are addicted. Also: there are some computer games, which have the potential for addiction. Some others (especially "free to play") shamelessly monetarize on addiction. Similar things goes from other businesses: e.g. loans, dating websites, social media, etc.
  - freepor 7y ago
    Yes, but I think that the majority of alcohol is consumed by addicts. I have a few 750mL bottles of liquor that I use to make a drink for myself once or twice a week. My alcoholic childhood friend has drunk an entire handle of liquor (1.75L) in a day and then walked to the liquor store in the snow to get more. I’m counted as an alcohol user, but my usage is a rounding error of his.
    - bcrosby95 7y ago
      Yes, in the past I knew a couple people that were addicted - as in, they got the shakes if they didn't drink. They would drink several 750ml bottles of vodka per day.
    - fjp 7y ago
      I'm struggling to find a source, but I was taught in school that some large majority of the total beer consumption is by a core group of beer drinkers that average > 3/4 gallon (around eight cans of beer) per day
      - Loughla 7y ago
        I was staggered, at my last health physical, to learn that --light to light/moderate-- alcohol consumption for someone my size is 14 beers a week. I have 14 beers (or its equivalent hard alcohol) over the course of a month or two, and that still seemed like a lot.
        kortilla 7y ago
- spicymaki 7y ago
  > Also alcohol companies as well. Indeed, death in the US due to alcoholism is about 88,000 a year it is the #3 leading preventable cause of death. [1] Tobacco related deaths is #1 (preventable) by 480,000. [2] Obesity is #2 for completeness. I have loved ones that have died or are dying from one or a combination of these vices. [1] https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sh... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal...
clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
Their whole strategy is dumb. They could be winning the legal cannabis game but rather they fight against it.
- monadic2 7y ago
  Phillip Morris has a pretty diverse portfolio; they just play every side.
- freehunter 7y ago
  Phillip Morris invested over $2b in Cronos Group. They are playing in the cannabis game.
homonculus1 7y ago
I feel blessed to live in a world where companies can "get away with" selling products to people who are informed of the risks and choose to buy them. The urge to remove the option for others to behave irrationally runs strong in some, but we mustn't be carried away by ego. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” --C.S. Lewis
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- throwanem 7y ago
  "Omnipotent", there, is palming a card.
  - TimTheTinker 7y ago
    I think he’s referring to something like a surveillance state - folks in charge who know everything about you and wish to police all your behavior. It’s a great quote from 70 years ago that speaks well to modern politics, but its application to Phillip Morris here seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.
    - throwanem 7y ago
      You may be right, but he still dodges the comparison. His moral busybodies are "omnipotent", while his robber barons are not. I understand why this should be the case - were it otherwise, the thought of living under robber barons would not come off nearly so well - but I see no reason why it should pass without comment.
testfoobar 7y ago
Sugar is addictive. "Using brain-scanning technology, scientists at the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse were among the first to show that sugar causes changes in peoples' brains similar to those in people addicted to drugs such as cocaine and alcohol.6,7 These changes are linked to a heightened craving for more sugar.8 This important evidence has set off a flood of research on the potentially addictive properties of sugar.9" https://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/the-growing-concern-of-overconsumption.html https://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/the-growing-concern-of-overcon... Obesity, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, etc. all cause society a massive loss in lost length and quality of life, lost productivity and increased health costs.

These companies are selling an addictive poison and continuing to get away with it -- never forget that.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

Also alcohol companies as well.

drdeca 7y ago
I’m under the impression that alcohol is substantially less chemically addictive than Nicotine. Is that correct?
- jowday 7y ago
  Substantially less chemically addictive, but causes a much higher degree of social harm for those who do get addicted.
  - ainiriand 7y ago
    Much more harmful even if you are not addicted. Take road accidents and fights for example.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  This is actually a surprisingly difficult question to answer. If you had asked specifically about tobacco, you'd be correct. But, nicotine itself may not be as addictive as tobacco products are. Remember that tobacco contains many other compounds that influence how the body metabolizes things (MAOI's and such). Here's a link with some citations: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Addiction_TobNic.htm http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Addiction_TobNic.htm EDIT: My personal anecdote is that I tried vaping when the first 901 ecigs started to hit the US market: the idea was twofold. I wanted to assess whether there was any cognitive benefit in using nicotine through a cleaner delivery system and I also wanted to get my dad to quit smoking cigarettes. Both goals were failures, I found it too difficult to dose reliably using this method and the side effects weren't worth it to me. I did not find myself addicted after around a month of use.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I’m under the impression that alcohol is substantially less chemically addictive than Nicotine. Is that correct? Doesn't addictiveness vary from person to person?
- aianus 7y ago
  You can die from quitting alcohol cold-turkey, which is not true for nicotine.
  - fenwick67 7y ago
    Was about to post this. They're really very different addictions. Nicotine withdrawal is mostly medically harmless.
  - drdeca 7y ago
    This is a good point, and I either didn’t know or forgot that
stared 7y ago
Most alcohol users (in many countries, the majority of the adult population) are not addicts. As far as I know, most cigarette and e-cigarette users are addicted. Also: there are some computer games, which have the potential for addiction. Some others (especially "free to play") shamelessly monetarize on addiction. Similar things goes from other businesses: e.g. loans, dating websites, social media, etc.
- freepor 7y ago
  Yes, but I think that the majority of alcohol is consumed by addicts. I have a few 750mL bottles of liquor that I use to make a drink for myself once or twice a week. My alcoholic childhood friend has drunk an entire handle of liquor (1.75L) in a day and then walked to the liquor store in the snow to get more. I’m counted as an alcohol user, but my usage is a rounding error of his.
  - bcrosby95 7y ago
    Yes, in the past I knew a couple people that were addicted - as in, they got the shakes if they didn't drink. They would drink several 750ml bottles of vodka per day.
  - fjp 7y ago
    I'm struggling to find a source, but I was taught in school that some large majority of the total beer consumption is by a core group of beer drinkers that average > 3/4 gallon (around eight cans of beer) per day
    - Loughla 7y ago
      I was staggered, at my last health physical, to learn that --light to light/moderate-- alcohol consumption for someone my size is 14 beers a week. I have 14 beers (or its equivalent hard alcohol) over the course of a month or two, and that still seemed like a lot.
      - kortilla 7y ago
spicymaki 7y ago
> Also alcohol companies as well. Indeed, death in the US due to alcoholism is about 88,000 a year it is the #3 leading preventable cause of death. [1] Tobacco related deaths is #1 (preventable) by 480,000. [2] Obesity is #2 for completeness. I have loved ones that have died or are dying from one or a combination of these vices. [1] https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sh... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal...

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago

Their whole strategy is dumb. They could be winning the legal cannabis game but rather they fight against it.

monadic2 7y ago
Phillip Morris has a pretty diverse portfolio; they just play every side.
freehunter 7y ago
Phillip Morris invested over $2b in Cronos Group. They are playing in the cannabis game.

homonculus1 7y ago

I feel blessed to live in a world where companies can "get away with" selling products to people who are informed of the risks and choose to buy them. The urge to remove the option for others to behave irrationally runs strong in some, but we mustn't be carried away by ego. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” --C.S. Lewis

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
throwanem 7y ago
"Omnipotent", there, is palming a card.
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  I think he’s referring to something like a surveillance state - folks in charge who know everything about you and wish to police all your behavior. It’s a great quote from 70 years ago that speaks well to modern politics, but its application to Phillip Morris here seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    You may be right, but he still dodges the comparison. His moral busybodies are "omnipotent", while his robber barons are not. I understand why this should be the case - were it otherwise, the thought of living under robber barons would not come off nearly so well - but I see no reason why it should pass without comment.

testfoobar 7y ago

Sugar is addictive. "Using brain-scanning technology, scientists at the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse were among the first to show that sugar causes changes in peoples' brains similar to those in people addicted to drugs such as cocaine and alcohol.6,7 These changes are linked to a heightened craving for more sugar.8 This important evidence has set off a flood of research on the potentially addictive properties of sugar.9" https://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/the-growing-concern-of-overconsumption.html https://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/the-growing-concern-of-overcon... Obesity, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, etc. all cause society a massive loss in lost length and quality of life, lost productivity and increased health costs.