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On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. Imagine

On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. Imagine negotiating with an employer, except your inner monologue is always spoken aloud. One unintended (?) consequence of extreme transparency for governments, is that it makes government ineffective and easily subverted or outmaneuvered by opaque organizations, like corporations and less liberal state actors.

leto_ii 7y ago
> On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. I agree, but an advantage over whom exactly? In this case it's simply an advantage of the ruling political and economic elite over European citizens (Greeks especially). There are few instances when things really should be kept secret e.g. during wars, but this was not one of them.
- thanatropism 7y ago
  But this is a story of European government bodies versus Greek government bodies. You identify SYRIZA with The People too easily. What, Varoufakis is a world-renown professor of game theory. You don’t think he has an agenda? Is it impossible that this agenda clashes against the Good of Greek People?
- rumanator 7y ago
  > I agree, but an advantage over whom exactly? In this case it's simply an advantage of the ruling political and economic elite over European citizens (Greeks especially). Not quite, the problem are extremist and populist political parties who abuse any crisis to force their way into relevance without playing any constructive role in any part of the problem. There's a long list of examples in European history of how extremistm exploits economic and financial crisis for their own self-interest and in the process causing a long steam of suffering and misery. It happened often enough to enable us to learn from that mistake.
black_puppydog 7y ago
Except that in the case of politics, the "out group" who that information is kept from are the people being governed. And do you want politics to have a "strong advantage" over it's citizens? By the way, this goes hand in hand with the encroachment on ordinary citizens' rights (often with exceptions being carved out specifically for parliamentarians).
- rumanator 7y ago
  > Except that in the case of politics, the "out group" who that information is kept from are the people being governed. And do you want politics to have a "strong advantage" over it's citizens? Obviously you want your elected representatives to do what's best, not what gets you trending in the polls. In this particular case we should expect the EU to step up and help out member-states in need in spite of the political abuse and exploitation by populist parties of problems such as the sovereign debt crisis.
lucianoq 7y ago
States and Organizations/Corporations are NOT at the same level. States create and enforce the laws, they can do whatever they want. Their only limit is the people willingness expressed via elections. Corporations can never be above a State if they play in a game where the State decides the rules.
toohotatopic 7y ago
>On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. Not necessarily. If there is secrecy within the organization, any leader of a subbranch can abuse his power along the line of the movie Dr. Strangelove.
mempko 7y ago
Democratic institutions must be transparent. But of course, the eurogroup is NOT a democratic organization. It makes you wonder why an unaccountable organization like the ECB was allowed so much power.

leto_ii 7y ago

> On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. I agree, but an advantage over whom exactly? In this case it's simply an advantage of the ruling political and economic elite over European citizens (Greeks especially). There are few instances when things really should be kept secret e.g. during wars, but this was not one of them.

thanatropism 7y ago
But this is a story of European government bodies versus Greek government bodies. You identify SYRIZA with The People too easily. What, Varoufakis is a world-renown professor of game theory. You don’t think he has an agenda? Is it impossible that this agenda clashes against the Good of Greek People?
rumanator 7y ago
> I agree, but an advantage over whom exactly? In this case it's simply an advantage of the ruling political and economic elite over European citizens (Greeks especially). Not quite, the problem are extremist and populist political parties who abuse any crisis to force their way into relevance without playing any constructive role in any part of the problem. There's a long list of examples in European history of how extremistm exploits economic and financial crisis for their own self-interest and in the process causing a long steam of suffering and misery. It happened often enough to enable us to learn from that mistake.

black_puppydog 7y ago

Except that in the case of politics, the "out group" who that information is kept from are the people being governed. And do you want politics to have a "strong advantage" over it's citizens? By the way, this goes hand in hand with the encroachment on ordinary citizens' rights (often with exceptions being carved out specifically for parliamentarians).

rumanator 7y ago
> Except that in the case of politics, the "out group" who that information is kept from are the people being governed. And do you want politics to have a "strong advantage" over it's citizens? Obviously you want your elected representatives to do what's best, not what gets you trending in the polls. In this particular case we should expect the EU to step up and help out member-states in need in spite of the political abuse and exploitation by populist parties of problems such as the sovereign debt crisis.

lucianoq 7y ago

States and Organizations/Corporations are NOT at the same level. States create and enforce the laws, they can do whatever they want. Their only limit is the people willingness expressed via elections. Corporations can never be above a State if they play in a game where the State decides the rules.

toohotatopic 7y ago

>On the other hand, organizations that are able to keep their internal deliberations private have a strong advantage over ones who must ‘think’ openly. Not necessarily. If there is secrecy within the organization, any leader of a subbranch can abuse his power along the line of the movie Dr. Strangelove.

mempko 7y ago

Democratic institutions must be transparent. But of course, the eurogroup is NOT a democratic organization. It makes you wonder why an unaccountable organization like the ECB was allowed so much power.