3 ms·

And even if it was the case... Maybe the logical reasoning is something like: EU need some worldclass banks to be independant, so we can't let a single country

And even if it was the case... Maybe the logical reasoning is something like: EU need some worldclass banks to be independant, so we can't let a single country trash everything for all other EU countries. I can understand that Greek people would be angry to be "sacrified"... and that's why that kind of meeting is secret! Because to govern is not only to be elected but sometimes to have to take bad choices, when only other choices are worst

odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
I am not even againts french/german politicians to do that, they represent their population, but Greek people have the right to know they are being sacrificed for the 'greater good'. And what their representatives did, and to vote accordingly. And if it is a Grexit, so be it, but don't hide things from the population because they are unpopular, specially when they mess with their lives so much.
tsimionescu 7y ago
If that were the case, the politician would have to be able to explain that to the electorate and convince them of it. If they can't, then that decision should not be taken. That's what democracy should mean - we don't elect representatives so that they can take decisions we don't want but that they think are good for us. We elect representatives because direct democracy doesn't scale.
- biztos 7y ago
  And yet in 2020, with a little bit of tech know-how, why exactly should it not scale?
- olivierduval 7y ago
  Actually, that's 2 different points of view on democracy: do we elect people to to do what we want now or to do what is best for us in the long run ? And who is "the people" ? The majority of the numbers (without any though for all minorities) ? The loudest minorities ? At best, both would be same: elected people would explain to the people what is best for them and convince them, then people would want what is best for them in the long run. But sadly, nobody like to be sacrified now for the long term better good of all. And politicians need to be reelected. So politicians have to hide and manipulate to some extend (for what they think is the greater good of most of the population)... "Crowd wisdom" is nice for really specific matters... but not really for managing a population with diversities in the long run.

odshoifsdhfs 7y ago

I am not even againts french/german politicians to do that, they represent their population, but Greek people have the right to know they are being sacrificed for the 'greater good'. And what their representatives did, and to vote accordingly. And if it is a Grexit, so be it, but don't hide things from the population because they are unpopular, specially when they mess with their lives so much.

tsimionescu 7y ago

If that were the case, the politician would have to be able to explain that to the electorate and convince them of it. If they can't, then that decision should not be taken. That's what democracy should mean - we don't elect representatives so that they can take decisions we don't want but that they think are good for us. We elect representatives because direct democracy doesn't scale.

biztos 7y ago
And yet in 2020, with a little bit of tech know-how, why exactly should it not scale?
olivierduval 7y ago
Actually, that's 2 different points of view on democracy: do we elect people to to do what we want now or to do what is best for us in the long run ? And who is "the people" ? The majority of the numbers (without any though for all minorities) ? The loudest minorities ? At best, both would be same: elected people would explain to the people what is best for them and convince them, then people would want what is best for them in the long run. But sadly, nobody like to be sacrified now for the long term better good of all. And politicians need to be reelected. So politicians have to hide and manipulate to some extend (for what they think is the greater good of most of the population)... "Crowd wisdom" is nice for really specific matters... but not really for managing a population with diversities in the long run.