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Currently someone who has transitioned is noticeably different than someone who was born that way. I think it's not far-fetched to imagine that in the future t

Currently someone who has transitioned is noticeably different than someone who was born that way. I think it's not far-fetched to imagine that in the future there will no longer be any 'uncanny valley' and the stigma will disappear.

apta 7y ago
It won't happen. A man who pretends to be a woman still carries XY chromosomes. This is a fundamental reality with no way around it.
- DavidVoid 7y ago
  They don't pretend to be women, transwomen are women (and transmen are men). There's a lot more to people and gender than chromosomes. And with your line of reasoning can an intersex person (such as someone with XXY chromosomes) never be considered a man nor a woman?
  - apta 7y ago
    Intersex is a physical condition at the chromosome level. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, so it follows that no, "transwomen" are not women, and "transmen" are not men, just how someone who believes that he's a dog doesn't make him a dog.
- streb-lo 7y ago
  A man can't go in space, can't fly, can't trick rocks into thinking, and can't do many things. But we do anways. Your understanding of reality is flawed. XY chromosomes provide the instructions for the human organism to construct a male body -- they do nothing to prevent the altering of it later on. Also, is this not 'hacker' news? Chromosomes are just the source code -- eventually we we will hack the souce or the binary all we want.
  - apta 7y ago
    Right, just remind me when we're able to change the physical construct after it has already been constructing. It's literally impossible. Might as well change a banana into a fly by "changing the source code".
    - streb-lo 7y ago
      People also thought flight was impossible. In this case, the 'construct' is the morphological traits that distinguish men from women. That's what our brains use to differentiate men from women -- chromosomes are irrelevant here. We don't need to replicate sex at a molecular level -- if someone is indiscernible from a women without inspecting their molecular structure they are for all practical purposes a woman. A far cry from changing a fly into a banana, as much as you may wish it were so.
      - apta 7y ago
        They're two very different things. Flight is obviously possible because the inherent laws of physics allow it, and we observed other creatures do it. How are you going to take a grown man, whose physical traits are obviously different from a woman (broader shoulders, taller, more muscle mass, deep voice, not to mention his reproductive system, and other documented differences in other organs), and turn him into a woman? This is physically impossible and is akin to changing a banana into a fly. > if someone is indiscernible from a women without inspecting their molecular structure they are for all practical purposes a woman And physics and biology would still disagree with you. This warping of reality to fit some unscientific narrative is getting out of hand.
        streb-lo 7y ago
        > How are you going to take a grown man, whose physical traits are obviously different from a woman (broader shoulders, taller, more muscle mass, deep voice, not to mention his reproductive system, and other documented differences in other organs), and turn him into a woman? This is physically impossible and is akin to changing a banana into a fly. Well, the spectrum of bone sizes / muscle mass do have crossovers between the sexes. Obviously you're not going to turn a 6'5'' 300lb man into a believable woman but if that same man starts to transition at 16? Who knows. And there are plenty of people who are well within the size parameters of the opposing sex even in adulthood. > And physics and biology would still disagree with you. This warping of reality to fit some unscientific narrative is getting out of hand. Disagree with what? I said for all practical purposes. Sure, you could in theory make a biological and physical distinction -- it just won't be relevant to 99% of people if the difference is not available to them. Does a multi-platform software user care if he's running the ARM or x86 binary? They are two vastly different beasts but if the compilers work the user has no distinction. > They're two very different things. Flight is obviously possible because the inherent laws of physics allow it, and we observed other creatures do it. You are missing the big picture. What we view as physically possible now will change, as it always has throughout history. Space travel used to be 'physically impossible', heck so did circumnavigating the world. We will eventually reverse engineer our brain structure -- downloading our consciousness might be feasible one day. Do you think people will care about XY chromosomes when they can swap bodies? Or in a world that heavily uses VR?

apta 7y ago

It won't happen. A man who pretends to be a woman still carries XY chromosomes. This is a fundamental reality with no way around it.

DavidVoid 7y ago
They don't pretend to be women, transwomen are women (and transmen are men). There's a lot more to people and gender than chromosomes. And with your line of reasoning can an intersex person (such as someone with XXY chromosomes) never be considered a man nor a woman?
- apta 7y ago
  Intersex is a physical condition at the chromosome level. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, so it follows that no, "transwomen" are not women, and "transmen" are not men, just how someone who believes that he's a dog doesn't make him a dog.
streb-lo 7y ago
A man can't go in space, can't fly, can't trick rocks into thinking, and can't do many things. But we do anways. Your understanding of reality is flawed. XY chromosomes provide the instructions for the human organism to construct a male body -- they do nothing to prevent the altering of it later on. Also, is this not 'hacker' news? Chromosomes are just the source code -- eventually we we will hack the souce or the binary all we want.
- apta 7y ago
  Right, just remind me when we're able to change the physical construct after it has already been constructing. It's literally impossible. Might as well change a banana into a fly by "changing the source code".
  - streb-lo 7y ago
    People also thought flight was impossible. In this case, the 'construct' is the morphological traits that distinguish men from women. That's what our brains use to differentiate men from women -- chromosomes are irrelevant here. We don't need to replicate sex at a molecular level -- if someone is indiscernible from a women without inspecting their molecular structure they are for all practical purposes a woman. A far cry from changing a fly into a banana, as much as you may wish it were so.
    - apta 7y ago
      They're two very different things. Flight is obviously possible because the inherent laws of physics allow it, and we observed other creatures do it. How are you going to take a grown man, whose physical traits are obviously different from a woman (broader shoulders, taller, more muscle mass, deep voice, not to mention his reproductive system, and other documented differences in other organs), and turn him into a woman? This is physically impossible and is akin to changing a banana into a fly. > if someone is indiscernible from a women without inspecting their molecular structure they are for all practical purposes a woman And physics and biology would still disagree with you. This warping of reality to fit some unscientific narrative is getting out of hand.
      - streb-lo 7y ago
        > How are you going to take a grown man, whose physical traits are obviously different from a woman (broader shoulders, taller, more muscle mass, deep voice, not to mention his reproductive system, and other documented differences in other organs), and turn him into a woman? This is physically impossible and is akin to changing a banana into a fly. Well, the spectrum of bone sizes / muscle mass do have crossovers between the sexes. Obviously you're not going to turn a 6'5'' 300lb man into a believable woman but if that same man starts to transition at 16? Who knows. And there are plenty of people who are well within the size parameters of the opposing sex even in adulthood. > And physics and biology would still disagree with you. This warping of reality to fit some unscientific narrative is getting out of hand. Disagree with what? I said for all practical purposes. Sure, you could in theory make a biological and physical distinction -- it just won't be relevant to 99% of people if the difference is not available to them. Does a multi-platform software user care if he's running the ARM or x86 binary? They are two vastly different beasts but if the compilers work the user has no distinction. > They're two very different things. Flight is obviously possible because the inherent laws of physics allow it, and we observed other creatures do it. You are missing the big picture. What we view as physically possible now will change, as it always has throughout history. Space travel used to be 'physically impossible', heck so did circumnavigating the world. We will eventually reverse engineer our brain structure -- downloading our consciousness might be feasible one day. Do you think people will care about XY chromosomes when they can swap bodies? Or in a world that heavily uses VR?