16 ms·

Consider: - Lincoln was not an Abolitionist hero as popularly lionized, but a status quo "moderate,' reluctant to rock the boat. Even though he knew it to be w

Consider: - Lincoln was not an Abolitionist hero as popularly lionized, but a status quo "moderate,' reluctant to rock the boat. Even though he knew it to be wrong, he did nothing in the affirmative until Secession. That's not moral courage, that's political expedience. - 13th Amendment, Section 1 giant slavery loophole: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. - for-profit prisons - elected district attorneys eager to make large numbers of convictions for reelection stats - politicians at all levels (e.g., municipal, county, state and federal) $upported by the prison lobby - mandatory minimums - the highest incarceration rate (per-capita) on the planet except Seychelles - and corporations eager to exploit cheap labor (most belong to ALEC) and what do you get? Slavery never ended, it just hides in a slightly different form, out-of-sight in the prison-industrial complex that most people never think about. And that doesn't even include the matters of discrimination and segregation like Jim Crow laws like poll taxes, red lining, property requirements and voter ID laws. Here's just a few of the corporations that exploit prison (slave) labor: - Allstate Insurance - American Express - AT&T - Bank of America - BP America - ExxonMobil - Fruit of the Loom - GEICO - Johnson & Johnson - J.P. Morgan - Mary Kay Cosmetics - McDonalds - Microsoft - Procter & Gamble - Quaker Oats - Sara Lee - Sprint - Verizon - United Airlines - Wal-Mart - Wendy’s Source: http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corporations-that-use-prison-labor/ http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corpor...

neo4sure 7y ago
Thank you for that list.
UI_at_80x24 7y ago
This needs much more visibility and attention. Thank-you for posting this.
- thowfaraway 7y ago
  It is a bullshit citationless list.
  - gpm 7y ago
    It has citations in the form of hyperlinks, which in turn have detailed citations.
    - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
      Which say something completely different than what the post says they do. When people ask for citations they generally expect the citation to actually support the argument you are making.
      - gpm 7y ago
        Ok, great, that sounds like the start of a valid argument. Having bad citations or mispresenting what they say is completely different from being citationless. When some throwaway claims one and means the other I (quite reasonably in my opinion) assume they are simply mistaken rather than being more informed than me.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
thowfaraway 7y ago
Lincoln was not an Abolitionist hero as popularly lionized, but a status quo "moderate,' reluctant to rock the boat. Even though he knew it to be wrong, he did nothing in the affirmative until Secession. Lincoln's election triggered secession by the south. Maybe the Southerner's had a better sense of Lincoln's abolitionist credentials than you? Secession started after Lincoln was elected, but before he took office, what actions could he have taken? His abolitionist rhetoric was enough to trigger a civil war. That's a pretty big boat rock.
- gumby 7y ago
  > Lincoln's election triggered secession by the south. Maybe the Southerner's had a better sense of Lincoln's abolitionist credentials than you? Abolition was clearly in the Republican platform but he was chosen as a moderate candidate in the convention vs some more firebrand candidates, in the hope that he would forestall war. This is not controversial -- you can read accounts of the convention in old newspapers. The famous quote from Lincoln shows where his priorities lay: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." https://www.nytimes.com/1862/08/24/archives/a-letter-from-president-lincoln-reply-to-horace-greeley-slavery-and.html https://www.nytimes.com/1862/08/24/archives/a-letter-from-pr...
  - gumby 7y ago
    In addition he didn’t address slavery until relatively late in the war; when he did it was as a (failed) tactic to flip rebelling states and excepted slave states like Maryland and Delaware that remained in the union.
    - mobilefriendly 7y ago
      This is flat wrong. The Emancipation Proclamation was drafted in late 1862, the second year of the war when things were very much in doubt. Lincoln issued it in the wake of the major battle at Antietam, which was a brutal "tie" and the deadliest day in American history. The tactical purpose of the Proclamation to try to recapture the momentum and make it clear that the North was now on a path of total war with the South.
whataboutdgaf 7y ago
> Here's just a few of the corporations that exploit prison (slave) labor: > (list) > Source: http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corpor.. http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corpor.... That article is an absolute joke. Its underlying sources too. So incredibly lacking in evidence or data to support such a huge accusation.
- gpm 7y ago
  At a glance the underlying source list seems quite thorough and well research, it's available here (below) and every company points to a document that proves it. It's regularly updated. Can you expand on your complaint? https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    Because they are two entirely different things. It is 100% complete and total bullshit to say that a corporation who has some, often extremely tenuous, relationship with ALEC "profits from prison labor". There's plenty of real bad stuff going on that needs revealing without resorting to lying.
    - gpm 7y ago
      Ok, so your saying this article is misusing it's source list, not that the underlying source list is an absolute joke like the original throwaway I replied to is?
      - WillPostForFood 7y ago
        The underlying source is an absolute joke as well. Whether ALEC somehow benefits from prison labor or not, just because these companies may have a relationship with ALEC doesn't mean they benefit.
        7y ago
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
I responded to another comment but your list is total bullshit, as evidenced by your own link. Those are companies that have had some, often extremely tenuous, relationship with ALEC, and a quick glance at the actual source shows that many of those companies cut ties with ALEC nearly 10 years ago.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>Here's just a few of the corporations that exploit prison (slave) labor Apples and mangoes: Would it be better if prisoners didn't work at all or is $1 a day better for them? Is this forced labor? Did these companies set the salaries or did the Government?
- AndrewThrowaway 7y ago
  If you have one group who wants $20 an hour and other group who would work for $1 a day you have an initiative to enlarge the second group. As for Goverment setting the salaries - it becomes much more complicated through lobbying and etc. If you go high enough I believe companies and governments are no longer on different poles.
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    > you have an initiative to enlarge the second group. Only if the efficiency and quality is worth it. Which, having had the pleasure of meeting some of our local incarcerated, its vanishingly unlikely.

neo4sure 7y ago

Thank you for that list.

UI_at_80x24 7y ago

This needs much more visibility and attention. Thank-you for posting this.

thowfaraway 7y ago
It is a bullshit citationless list.
- gpm 7y ago
  It has citations in the form of hyperlinks, which in turn have detailed citations.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    Which say something completely different than what the post says they do. When people ask for citations they generally expect the citation to actually support the argument you are making.
    - gpm 7y ago
      Ok, great, that sounds like the start of a valid argument. Having bad citations or mispresenting what they say is completely different from being citationless. When some throwaway claims one and means the other I (quite reasonably in my opinion) assume they are simply mistaken rather than being more informed than me.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

thowfaraway 7y ago

Lincoln was not an Abolitionist hero as popularly lionized, but a status quo "moderate,' reluctant to rock the boat. Even though he knew it to be wrong, he did nothing in the affirmative until Secession. Lincoln's election triggered secession by the south. Maybe the Southerner's had a better sense of Lincoln's abolitionist credentials than you? Secession started after Lincoln was elected, but before he took office, what actions could he have taken? His abolitionist rhetoric was enough to trigger a civil war. That's a pretty big boat rock.

gumby 7y ago
> Lincoln's election triggered secession by the south. Maybe the Southerner's had a better sense of Lincoln's abolitionist credentials than you? Abolition was clearly in the Republican platform but he was chosen as a moderate candidate in the convention vs some more firebrand candidates, in the hope that he would forestall war. This is not controversial -- you can read accounts of the convention in old newspapers. The famous quote from Lincoln shows where his priorities lay: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that." https://www.nytimes.com/1862/08/24/archives/a-letter-from-president-lincoln-reply-to-horace-greeley-slavery-and.html https://www.nytimes.com/1862/08/24/archives/a-letter-from-pr...
- gumby 7y ago
  In addition he didn’t address slavery until relatively late in the war; when he did it was as a (failed) tactic to flip rebelling states and excepted slave states like Maryland and Delaware that remained in the union.
  - mobilefriendly 7y ago
    This is flat wrong. The Emancipation Proclamation was drafted in late 1862, the second year of the war when things were very much in doubt. Lincoln issued it in the wake of the major battle at Antietam, which was a brutal "tie" and the deadliest day in American history. The tactical purpose of the Proclamation to try to recapture the momentum and make it clear that the North was now on a path of total war with the South.

whataboutdgaf 7y ago

> Here's just a few of the corporations that exploit prison (slave) labor: > (list) > Source: http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corpor.. http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/06/29/heres-a-list-of-corpor.... That article is an absolute joke. Its underlying sources too. So incredibly lacking in evidence or data to support such a huge accusation.

gpm 7y ago
At a glance the underlying source list seems quite thorough and well research, it's available here (below) and every company points to a document that proves it. It's regularly updated. Can you expand on your complaint? https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Corporations
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  Because they are two entirely different things. It is 100% complete and total bullshit to say that a corporation who has some, often extremely tenuous, relationship with ALEC "profits from prison labor". There's plenty of real bad stuff going on that needs revealing without resorting to lying.
  - gpm 7y ago
    Ok, so your saying this article is misusing it's source list, not that the underlying source list is an absolute joke like the original throwaway I replied to is?
    - WillPostForFood 7y ago
      The underlying source is an absolute joke as well. Whether ALEC somehow benefits from prison labor or not, just because these companies may have a relationship with ALEC doesn't mean they benefit.
      - 7y ago

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

I responded to another comment but your list is total bullshit, as evidenced by your own link. Those are companies that have had some, often extremely tenuous, relationship with ALEC, and a quick glance at the actual source shows that many of those companies cut ties with ALEC nearly 10 years ago.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>Here's just a few of the corporations that exploit prison (slave) labor Apples and mangoes: Would it be better if prisoners didn't work at all or is $1 a day better for them? Is this forced labor? Did these companies set the salaries or did the Government?

AndrewThrowaway 7y ago
If you have one group who wants $20 an hour and other group who would work for $1 a day you have an initiative to enlarge the second group. As for Goverment setting the salaries - it becomes much more complicated through lobbying and etc. If you go high enough I believe companies and governments are no longer on different poles.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  > you have an initiative to enlarge the second group. Only if the efficiency and quality is worth it. Which, having had the pleasure of meeting some of our local incarcerated, its vanishingly unlikely.