4 ms·

I envy you: it must be nice to participate in a debate and get to be the one who makes the rules up as you go.

wpietri 7y ago
This isn't a "debate". There's no stage, no hosting organization, no moderator, no judges, no rules. This is, at best, a conversation. At best. I definitely decide how I'm going to spend my time. My goal in having these conversations is to end patriarchy and white supremacy. Most of the people supporting those things, wittingly or otherwise, will carry their views to their graves. And a good fraction of those people will argue just as long. This is pretty obvious from history. Look at the number of people still today, 150 years later, who are eager to lionize America's pro-slavery traitors, for example. My aim is not to convince the diehards, because they are not open to learning anything. I'm going to reach the people I can reach, and leave a reasonable record for the members of the audience who are, like I was, willing to change their minds. But I owe exactly zero to randos who are eager to defend race- and gender-based oppression. Which includes the regrettably large number of people who get mad that people are just discussing those problems. If you think something is owed to them, you go right ahead and have whatever "debate" you think is their due.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  > …will carry their views to their graves Ever consider then that you might be wrong? No, of course not.
  - wpietri 7y ago
    Of course I did. That's why there's a "most" in there. Which you then ignored, because you yourself are very eager to be "right" here.
    - MockObject 7y ago
      Well, nobody writes posts because they're eager to be "wrong", do they? What active measures are you taking, besides changing hearts and minds on HN, to dismantle the patriarchy and white supremacy? What are you personally doing, say, to promote the work of developers and entrepreneurs that are female and non-white?
      - wpietri 7y ago
        Oh, we're comparing resumes? I'll tell you what: you go first. And as to the first bit, some people are eager to be right, while some are eager to look right. My point is that he's in the latter group, and so is avoiding the substance of the discussion to snipe on minor points.
        MockObject 7y ago
        I was kindly giving you the benefit of the doubt that your activism extends beyond internet flamewars, and presumably the occasional Democratic vote. I mean, if I'd boasted allegiance to a jihad against a Great Satan, I think I'd jump at any chance to boast about my accomplishments.
        wpietri 7y ago
        If that's you, you go ahead and boast. I'm all ears.
        MockObject 7y ago
        You’ve answered my question quite clearly. Thanks.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

This isn't a "debate". There's no stage, no hosting organization, no moderator, no judges, no rules. This is, at best, a conversation. At best. I definitely decide how I'm going to spend my time. My goal in having these conversations is to end patriarchy and white supremacy. Most of the people supporting those things, wittingly or otherwise, will carry their views to their graves. And a good fraction of those people will argue just as long. This is pretty obvious from history. Look at the number of people still today, 150 years later, who are eager to lionize America's pro-slavery traitors, for example. My aim is not to convince the diehards, because they are not open to learning anything. I'm going to reach the people I can reach, and leave a reasonable record for the members of the audience who are, like I was, willing to change their minds. But I owe exactly zero to randos who are eager to defend race- and gender-based oppression. Which includes the regrettably large number of people who get mad that people are just discussing those problems. If you think something is owed to them, you go right ahead and have whatever "debate" you think is their due.

pinkfoot 7y ago
> …will carry their views to their graves Ever consider then that you might be wrong? No, of course not.
- wpietri 7y ago
  Of course I did. That's why there's a "most" in there. Which you then ignored, because you yourself are very eager to be "right" here.
  - MockObject 7y ago
    Well, nobody writes posts because they're eager to be "wrong", do they? What active measures are you taking, besides changing hearts and minds on HN, to dismantle the patriarchy and white supremacy? What are you personally doing, say, to promote the work of developers and entrepreneurs that are female and non-white?
    - wpietri 7y ago
      Oh, we're comparing resumes? I'll tell you what: you go first. And as to the first bit, some people are eager to be right, while some are eager to look right. My point is that he's in the latter group, and so is avoiding the substance of the discussion to snipe on minor points.
      - MockObject 7y ago
        I was kindly giving you the benefit of the doubt that your activism extends beyond internet flamewars, and presumably the occasional Democratic vote. I mean, if I'd boasted allegiance to a jihad against a Great Satan, I think I'd jump at any chance to boast about my accomplishments.
        wpietri 7y ago
        If that's you, you go ahead and boast. I'm all ears.
        MockObject 7y ago
        You’ve answered my question quite clearly. Thanks.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]