5 ms·

'2 hours lunch break and 1hr for prayer breaks' and the work is low quality. You don't need to track those people, you need to replace them.

speedgoose 7y ago
A 2 hours lunch break is the standard in France.
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
  "You can't fire these people" is also the standard in France. Also standard: a stagnant economy (~0.25% GDP growth on 0.18% population growth) and sky-high youth unemployment (20-25%).
  - speedgoose 7y ago
    You can definitely fire people in France. I don't know how you got the idea you can't. Also quality of life is perhaps more important than these numbers. People don't care about the GDP growth, don't want to have artifical employment with terrible and badly paid jobs (looking at you Germany), and prefer to eat good food for 2 hours.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - refurb 7y ago
      People don't care about the GDP growth They most certainly do when thinking about about the social programs GDP funds.
    - fennecfoxen 7y ago
      People care when they can't be hired for a good job, they care when their paycheck is stuck at the same level forever, and they care whether their government services are any good. If GDP isn't going to pay for those things, what is? Debt? Plunder?
- factsaresacred 7y ago
  Maybe you can get away with being absent for 3 hours of the workday if you're competent - but according to the OP they are not. Seems unfair to one's employer and one's colleagues.
crystaldev 7y ago
Found the American.
- tudelo 7y ago
  Wait, you don't think low work quality is a reasonable reason to fire someone?
  - Sharlin 7y ago
    In many countries it is not.
    - scottmcf 7y ago
      Where, and how do they handle someone who can't do the job properly?
      - andrekandre 7y ago
        mentor them, teach them, find what their problem is and help them with it if you can’t improve anything, then as last resort help them find somewhere else i know that’s easier said than done, but i’ve done it, it’s possible for sure (for someone who is openly destructive or hostile, well that’s of course different)
      - Sharlin 7y ago
        It's pretty standard in Western European countries. The employer must primarily provide training or arrange another, more well-suited position in the company. Even as a committed leftist I find that in some cases the rules are too strict, for example when it discourages small companies and startups from hiring more manpower.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
milesvp 7y ago
I might agree with you if all you quoted was the low quality part. My experience in software is that it’s typical to only get ~4 good hours out of someone per day. That’s 2or3 1.5-2hr streches. So the 4 hours worth of breaks, just means it takes 8 hours to get those 4 hours in. I’ve worked with devs who can maybe squeeze in another period into an 8 hour day (and if you’re reading HN you are probably more likely to be one), but I don’t think that’s something you can force someone to do, and probably shouldn’t assume you can hire for. As for the low quality output, I’ve seen teams improve significantly by implementing good biweekly retros (note that bad retros can make things worse). Fostering the right atmosphere can do wonders to bring out latent talent. Also things like tooling can really help. CI with linting, and a no-judgement ‘you broke the build you fix the build’ rule can also really help.

speedgoose 7y ago

A 2 hours lunch break is the standard in France.

fennecfoxen 7y ago
"You can't fire these people" is also the standard in France. Also standard: a stagnant economy (~0.25% GDP growth on 0.18% population growth) and sky-high youth unemployment (20-25%).
- speedgoose 7y ago
  You can definitely fire people in France. I don't know how you got the idea you can't. Also quality of life is perhaps more important than these numbers. People don't care about the GDP growth, don't want to have artifical employment with terrible and badly paid jobs (looking at you Germany), and prefer to eat good food for 2 hours.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - refurb 7y ago
    People don't care about the GDP growth They most certainly do when thinking about about the social programs GDP funds.
  - fennecfoxen 7y ago
    People care when they can't be hired for a good job, they care when their paycheck is stuck at the same level forever, and they care whether their government services are any good. If GDP isn't going to pay for those things, what is? Debt? Plunder?
factsaresacred 7y ago
Maybe you can get away with being absent for 3 hours of the workday if you're competent - but according to the OP they are not. Seems unfair to one's employer and one's colleagues.

crystaldev 7y ago

Found the American.

tudelo 7y ago
Wait, you don't think low work quality is a reasonable reason to fire someone?
- Sharlin 7y ago
  In many countries it is not.
  - scottmcf 7y ago
    Where, and how do they handle someone who can't do the job properly?
    - andrekandre 7y ago
      mentor them, teach them, find what their problem is and help them with it if you can’t improve anything, then as last resort help them find somewhere else i know that’s easier said than done, but i’ve done it, it’s possible for sure (for someone who is openly destructive or hostile, well that’s of course different)
    - Sharlin 7y ago
      It's pretty standard in Western European countries. The employer must primarily provide training or arrange another, more well-suited position in the company. Even as a committed leftist I find that in some cases the rules are too strict, for example when it discourages small companies and startups from hiring more manpower.
dang 7y ago
Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

milesvp 7y ago

I might agree with you if all you quoted was the low quality part. My experience in software is that it’s typical to only get ~4 good hours out of someone per day. That’s 2or3 1.5-2hr streches. So the 4 hours worth of breaks, just means it takes 8 hours to get those 4 hours in. I’ve worked with devs who can maybe squeeze in another period into an 8 hour day (and if you’re reading HN you are probably more likely to be one), but I don’t think that’s something you can force someone to do, and probably shouldn’t assume you can hire for. As for the low quality output, I’ve seen teams improve significantly by implementing good biweekly retros (note that bad retros can make things worse). Fostering the right atmosphere can do wonders to bring out latent talent. Also things like tooling can really help. CI with linting, and a no-judgement ‘you broke the build you fix the build’ rule can also really help.