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Having non-modal interfaces seems simpler for the user in a simple application, sure. But when I consider all the power in the classic example of vi/vim command
by cestith 7y ago
Having non-modal interfaces seems simpler for the user in a simple application, sure. But when I consider all the power in the classic example of vi/vim command mode I'm unconvinced.
If you want that flexibility and power, the options must live somewhere. Dividing that into two mutually exclusive modes breaks up the complexity of the main interface. I need to know a handful of key combinations like ESC, i, r, h, j, k, l (or arrow keys on modern systems), :, w, q, s, d, g, G, v, V, /, ?, !, % to get a vast majority of daily tasks done. How many nested drop-down menus would I need to navigate or multi-modifier hotkeys must I remember to do the same thing just so I don't have to remember one bit (which mode I'm in) before hitting a key?
The human mind is actually very comfortable with modes. Work, home, visiting family, visiting friends. Cooking at home vs dining out vs ordering in vs baking vs grilling vs cooking a holiday feast vs catering in vs party snacks and drinks vs road trip snacks. Driving vs taxi vs riding a bike vs walking. Retail vs garage sales vs in-person auctions vs online auctions vs online fixed-price shopping. Lending libraries vs bookstores vs reading rooms vs newsstands vs books we own vs ebooks. Math vs prose vs poetry vs visual communication vs music. We pay attention to different things and follow different sets of rules in different circumstances all the time. Is it easier to remember all the rules for all scenarios at once or to switch contexts?
- msla 7y agoDeveloping muscle memory for Emacs is no harder than developing it for Vim, and since both involve rebinding annoying keys on the keyboard (mostly about whether Caps Lock becomes Esc or Ctrl) I prefer the editor with the more mature extension language.
- ashton314 7y agoMake Caps Lock both! I've got mine bound to be Esc on tap, Ctrl on a longer hold. Best thing I ever did for my pinky. (I'm an Emacs user, though I'm sure Vim users would benefit greatly as well.)
- cestith 7y agoSee, that's a reasoned argument of pros and cons. You didn't outright dismiss modes or dismiss a tool because it uses them. There's not a problem at all preferring a tool that's modal or one that's amodal. It seems a weird sort of zealotry to dismiss one or the other for that reason alone. If you're looking to extend your editor a bunch then Emacs is great for that. Personally I primarily use a keyboard with no Caps Lock key so I don't worry about remapping it.
- kazinator 7y agoThere is a formal theory of modes, so to speak: Hierarchical State Machines (HSMs). A HSM has, or can have, a considerably simpler description that the equivalent FSM, because the equivalent FSM will have to duplicate all the states that are hierarchically shared in the HSM. Some info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UML_state_machine#Hierarchically_nested_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UML_state_machine#Hierarchical...
- harperlee 7y agoAlt+tab is mode change to an extent.
- contextfree 7y agoWhich is why Jef Raskin in his system and interface designs tried to avoid having the concept of separate applications at all (instead of installing different applications, you'd install commands, which could be used from anywhere in the system): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archy#Commands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archy#Commands
- agumonkey 7y agoMode and modeless are both sides of the same coin.
- Balooga 7y agoOr the same sides of different coins.