4 ms·

Do FAANG engineers have the same baggage? What about any adtech company ever?

justinclift 7y ago
Yes.
kick 7y ago
They should have lesser, though still real, baggage attached to them. There are definitely a few types of people in computer science who refuse to touch FAANG employees, but it's not as widespread as I wish it were.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Why should they have lesser baggage attached to them?
  - kick 7y ago
    NSA is unambiguously doing worse things than any FAANG or adtech company could do in their wildest wet dreams. "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog-idUSBRE98Q14G20130927 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... Optic Nerve ("GCHQ" in title is misleading because the NSA played a very enthusiastic helping role in it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optic_Nerve_(GCHQ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optic_Nerve_(GCHQ) ECHELON: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON There's so much they're responsible for that it seems like it'd be excessive to post all of them, and HN has a character limit, anyway. Even the most well-known ones would fill a couple of comments.
    - justinclift 7y ago
      Agreed, corrupt(ed) NSA people can do very bad stuff to targeted individuals. However, adtech companies damage everyone, and fairly significantly. eg concentration problems, addictive behaviours, etc. That's literally "human race" level damage. Doesn't seem like a lesser thing to me. :/
      - kick 7y ago
        Targeted individuals? They, for years until it was leaked, "targeted" every phone call in the United States: https://gizmodo.com/this-government-phone-tapping-thing-just-got-as-bad-as-511762830 https://gizmodo.com/this-government-phone-tapping-thing-just... And 125,000,000,000 globally, along with almost a hundred billion internet requests per month in a time when the Internet was much smaller, years ago, under a program that hasn't stopped: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant This definitely damages everyone, and I think more fundamentally than adtech companies. You can escape adtech companies: use different websites, install an adblocker, block trackers, whatever. There's no obvious way outside of strong encryption and hermitry to avoid NSA getting its paws on every single public or private communication you ever make, given their record. When privacy doesn't and cannot exist, human behavior changes deeply. I think it's the greater of two evils. Adtech companies definitely aren't good, by any stretch, but I think it's the difference between Ghengis Khan and a common killer: sure, they both want to kill you, but the scale and the level of cruelty is much different.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  If different groups all operate in a way that is unacceptable, then it doesn't really matter (in practical terms) which group is worse than the other.
  - kick 7y ago
    Sure, but if one group is operating in an unacceptable fashion along the lines of "We're stealing candy from babies!" and the other is "We're not only a risk to your business, your customers, and you, but also to the entire world, and also we have actually pretty legitimate ties to murder and also coups and also maybe war crimes a little," the first is child's play in comparison.
zentiggr 7y ago
Haven't been in a position to sort resumes yet. If I ever am, NSA in the history is a solid red flag. Be nice or go home. Willingness to participate in all that makes me wonder about your character. Facebook almost as much, depending on when and for how long. The more recent, or longer sustained stay, again. Be nice or go home. Google a little bit more reasonable, especially if only ever on the app/project side vs main service. Adtech experience, I'd have to ask if they'd washed their minds out and won't even consider any of those tactics ever again... on second thought, almost as bad a flag as NSA crap. Even if it's only a small drop of resistance in an ocean of "yeah, ok, whatever", I feel like we should signal that certain behaviors _against_ your fellow humans are poorly regarded. Edit: figured this would get downvotes, ah well.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  > Willingness to participate in all that Participate in what? The NSA does many different things and has many different positions. Would you hold NSA's janitors responsible as well?
  - zentiggr 7y ago
    Strawman. Obvious from context I'm referring to anyone involved in the SIGINT against CONUS and the Internet, and anything related.
    - sdinsn 7y ago
      Not a strawman- you stated "NSA in the history". Believe it or not employees work on all sorts of projects.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    Speaking generally, I view anyone who works for a very problematic company or agency in a worse light for it, regardless of whether they're at the bottom or top of the ladder. Obviously, the higher up the ladder a person, the stronger this effect is. However, that someone is willing to work in any capacity at an organization that behaves badly (in my view) says something about that person.

Yes.

kick 7y ago

They should have lesser, though still real, baggage attached to them. There are definitely a few types of people in computer science who refuse to touch FAANG employees, but it's not as widespread as I wish it were.

justinclift 7y ago
Why should they have lesser baggage attached to them?
- kick 7y ago
  NSA is unambiguously doing worse things than any FAANG or adtech company could do in their wildest wet dreams. "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog-idUSBRE98Q14G20130927 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... Optic Nerve ("GCHQ" in title is misleading because the NSA played a very enthusiastic helping role in it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optic_Nerve_(GCHQ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optic_Nerve_(GCHQ) ECHELON: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON There's so much they're responsible for that it seems like it'd be excessive to post all of them, and HN has a character limit, anyway. Even the most well-known ones would fill a couple of comments.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    Agreed, corrupt(ed) NSA people can do very bad stuff to targeted individuals. However, adtech companies damage everyone, and fairly significantly. eg concentration problems, addictive behaviours, etc. That's literally "human race" level damage. Doesn't seem like a lesser thing to me. :/
    - kick 7y ago
      Targeted individuals? They, for years until it was leaked, "targeted" every phone call in the United States: https://gizmodo.com/this-government-phone-tapping-thing-just-got-as-bad-as-511762830 https://gizmodo.com/this-government-phone-tapping-thing-just... And 125,000,000,000 globally, along with almost a hundred billion internet requests per month in a time when the Internet was much smaller, years ago, under a program that hasn't stopped: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant This definitely damages everyone, and I think more fundamentally than adtech companies. You can escape adtech companies: use different websites, install an adblocker, block trackers, whatever. There's no obvious way outside of strong encryption and hermitry to avoid NSA getting its paws on every single public or private communication you ever make, given their record. When privacy doesn't and cannot exist, human behavior changes deeply. I think it's the greater of two evils. Adtech companies definitely aren't good, by any stretch, but I think it's the difference between Ghengis Khan and a common killer: sure, they both want to kill you, but the scale and the level of cruelty is much different.
JohnFen 7y ago
If different groups all operate in a way that is unacceptable, then it doesn't really matter (in practical terms) which group is worse than the other.
- kick 7y ago
  Sure, but if one group is operating in an unacceptable fashion along the lines of "We're stealing candy from babies!" and the other is "We're not only a risk to your business, your customers, and you, but also to the entire world, and also we have actually pretty legitimate ties to murder and also coups and also maybe war crimes a little," the first is child's play in comparison.

zentiggr 7y ago

Haven't been in a position to sort resumes yet. If I ever am, NSA in the history is a solid red flag. Be nice or go home. Willingness to participate in all that makes me wonder about your character. Facebook almost as much, depending on when and for how long. The more recent, or longer sustained stay, again. Be nice or go home. Google a little bit more reasonable, especially if only ever on the app/project side vs main service. Adtech experience, I'd have to ask if they'd washed their minds out and won't even consider any of those tactics ever again... on second thought, almost as bad a flag as NSA crap. Even if it's only a small drop of resistance in an ocean of "yeah, ok, whatever", I feel like we should signal that certain behaviors _against_ your fellow humans are poorly regarded. Edit: figured this would get downvotes, ah well.

sdinsn 7y ago
> Willingness to participate in all that Participate in what? The NSA does many different things and has many different positions. Would you hold NSA's janitors responsible as well?
- zentiggr 7y ago
  Strawman. Obvious from context I'm referring to anyone involved in the SIGINT against CONUS and the Internet, and anything related.
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    Not a strawman- you stated "NSA in the history". Believe it or not employees work on all sorts of projects.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  Speaking generally, I view anyone who works for a very problematic company or agency in a worse light for it, regardless of whether they're at the bottom or top of the ladder. Obviously, the higher up the ladder a person, the stronger this effect is. However, that someone is willing to work in any capacity at an organization that behaves badly (in my view) says something about that person.