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Corporate personhood is a centuries old idea. It is what enables you to sign a contract with a company, for example. As a counter example that shows they are s

Corporate personhood is a centuries old idea. It is what enables you to sign a contract with a company, for example. As a counter example that shows they are still not fully "people": a corporation cannot adopt a child or get married.

jessaustin 7y ago
It is what enables you to sign a contract with a company, for example. We'd be better off if we couldn't do this. Predatory credit would disappear.
- strictnein 7y ago
  The entire financial system would disappear.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Wouldn't most of that be handled by corporations making agreements among themselves? I don't think "the entire financial system" is really based on hooking individual people on unsustainable credit.
    - Ajedi32 7y ago
      So if I want to buy a house, but don't have enough to cover 100% of the cost in a single down payment I'm just SOL? I guess I could rent instead, except that would require a contract as well. I get the impression you haven't really thought this through.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      No, the entire financial system is based on companies being able to enter into contracts directly, rather than requiring each of their owners to be individually involved in every transaction.
- kube-system 7y ago
  Well yeah, an absolute ton of things would disappear if we essentially made every company a sole proprietorship.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    That's another option, but it's not what I was talking about. If corporations exist, then sure we can let them create contracts among themselves.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      Most corporations would have a very difficult (i.e. impossible) time tracking down all of their owners for a signature on those contracts. That's why we allow them to be a legal person. So Comcast can sign a contract to purchase a new toner cartridge, rather than requiring a signature from each owner of each of their 4.5 billion shares outstanding.
- stordoff 7y ago
  How do I order something if I can't make a contract with a company? It's a contract of sale.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    It doesn't have to be. Fraud is still a crime. If I send the firm a BTC and they don't send me back a BTC worth of goods, how long will they remain in business?
- Ajedi32 7y ago
  As would employment. (I can't be employed by a company if I can't sign a contract with it.)
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    This isn't so. Most employment is at-will. This works fine, because lots of laws govern what employers may do to employees, and anyway slavery is illegal so any employee may leave at any time. 95% of any employment contract is various attempts to get around those legal protections for the employee. This is an especially pernicious case of the normal Stockholm Syndrome we see whenever the special status of corporations is challenged. No firm is 100% robots yet. If we withdraw our consent, they have to raise wages and improve working conditions until we relent.
    - Ajedi32 7y ago
      The law only protects you from actual crimes. There are hundreds of other small provisions which have to be negotiated as part of a contract to be enforceable from a legal perspective. This is especially true for freelancers, who don't have a single employer and are instead usually paid for deliverables as specified in a contract. Being able to quit anytime doesn't help if you've already spent weeks or months working on a project and never get paid because the company decides on a whim that they don't need your deliverable anymore.

jessaustin 7y ago

It is what enables you to sign a contract with a company, for example. We'd be better off if we couldn't do this. Predatory credit would disappear.

strictnein 7y ago
The entire financial system would disappear.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Wouldn't most of that be handled by corporations making agreements among themselves? I don't think "the entire financial system" is really based on hooking individual people on unsustainable credit.
  - Ajedi32 7y ago
    So if I want to buy a house, but don't have enough to cover 100% of the cost in a single down payment I'm just SOL? I guess I could rent instead, except that would require a contract as well. I get the impression you haven't really thought this through.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    No, the entire financial system is based on companies being able to enter into contracts directly, rather than requiring each of their owners to be individually involved in every transaction.
kube-system 7y ago
Well yeah, an absolute ton of things would disappear if we essentially made every company a sole proprietorship.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  That's another option, but it's not what I was talking about. If corporations exist, then sure we can let them create contracts among themselves.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Most corporations would have a very difficult (i.e. impossible) time tracking down all of their owners for a signature on those contracts. That's why we allow them to be a legal person. So Comcast can sign a contract to purchase a new toner cartridge, rather than requiring a signature from each owner of each of their 4.5 billion shares outstanding.
stordoff 7y ago
How do I order something if I can't make a contract with a company? It's a contract of sale.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  It doesn't have to be. Fraud is still a crime. If I send the firm a BTC and they don't send me back a BTC worth of goods, how long will they remain in business?
Ajedi32 7y ago
As would employment. (I can't be employed by a company if I can't sign a contract with it.)
- jessaustin 7y ago
  This isn't so. Most employment is at-will. This works fine, because lots of laws govern what employers may do to employees, and anyway slavery is illegal so any employee may leave at any time. 95% of any employment contract is various attempts to get around those legal protections for the employee. This is an especially pernicious case of the normal Stockholm Syndrome we see whenever the special status of corporations is challenged. No firm is 100% robots yet. If we withdraw our consent, they have to raise wages and improve working conditions until we relent.
  - Ajedi32 7y ago
    The law only protects you from actual crimes. There are hundreds of other small provisions which have to be negotiated as part of a contract to be enforceable from a legal perspective. This is especially true for freelancers, who don't have a single employer and are instead usually paid for deliverables as specified in a contract. Being able to quit anytime doesn't help if you've already spent weeks or months working on a project and never get paid because the company decides on a whim that they don't need your deliverable anymore.