4 ms·

Even that term "will of the people" is a kind of assault on rationality. It was a vote at one time, once, 4 years ago, with a 2% victory. The "will of the peo

by barrynuts1990 7y ago

Even that term "will of the people" is a kind of assault on rationality. It was a vote at one time, once, 4 years ago, with a 2% victory. The "will of the people" excludes all desires and agency from 15m+ people, who did not want this, in a civilised society subsuming those people to be "wrong" or to be ignored is a recipe for some deeply unpleasant and authoritarian thinking. Also, 17 million people elected Hitler in 1933 in Germany, that did not make it "right". Dangerous times.

Chris2048 7y ago
> It was a vote at one time, once, 4 years ago, with a 2% victory What criteria should I cherry pick in order to invalidate a result? Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? > in a civilised society subsuming those people to be "wrong" or to be ignored is a recipe for some deeply unpleasant and authoritarian thinking I didn't describe remainers as "wrong", I responded to a comment describing leavers as "wrong". However, as to "ignored" - why not? I'm sure it's unpleasant to lose a democratic vote, but its not "authoritarian". > Also, 17 million people elected Hitler in 1933 in Germany, that did not make it "right" Make what right? That they elected him? or that he became chancellor? Conflating brexit with Nazi elections is what I consider truly "dangerous". Many things happened after that election that contributed to the rise of Hitler.
- ben_w 7y ago
  > Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? Yes, and you must — otherwise the vote to leave isn’t legit in the first place. > I didn't describe remainers as "wrong", I responded to a comment describing leavers as "wrong". What I wrote was “…only an idiot would hold a referendum on something important where the wrong result was possible” [added emphasis]. That’s not leavers being wrong, that’s leave being wrong. Politically, it was the wrong move for the PM and you can tell by him resigning immediately. I think that alone is sufficient to call him an idiot for having called the referendum, which is what I was doing. Him and his successors being idiots is the main reason why I think this is going to be much, much worse for the UK, not the mere fact of leaving the EU, the departure from which is something I estimate to be a “economically bad but if you want it that’s your call”.
- NikkiA 7y ago
  > Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? There was no vote to join the EU, we joined when Edward Heath signed us into the EEC. There was a vote a year later as to whether we should remain in the EEC, for which 'remain' won.

Chris2048 7y ago

> It was a vote at one time, once, 4 years ago, with a 2% victory What criteria should I cherry pick in order to invalidate a result? Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? > in a civilised society subsuming those people to be "wrong" or to be ignored is a recipe for some deeply unpleasant and authoritarian thinking I didn't describe remainers as "wrong", I responded to a comment describing leavers as "wrong". However, as to "ignored" - why not? I'm sure it's unpleasant to lose a democratic vote, but its not "authoritarian". > Also, 17 million people elected Hitler in 1933 in Germany, that did not make it "right" Make what right? That they elected him? or that he became chancellor? Conflating brexit with Nazi elections is what I consider truly "dangerous". Many things happened after that election that contributed to the rise of Hitler.

ben_w 7y ago
> Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? Yes, and you must — otherwise the vote to leave isn’t legit in the first place. > I didn't describe remainers as "wrong", I responded to a comment describing leavers as "wrong". What I wrote was “…only an idiot would hold a referendum on something important where the wrong result was possible” [added emphasis]. That’s not leavers being wrong, that’s leave being wrong. Politically, it was the wrong move for the PM and you can tell by him resigning immediately. I think that alone is sufficient to call him an idiot for having called the referendum, which is what I was doing. Him and his successors being idiots is the main reason why I think this is going to be much, much worse for the UK, not the mere fact of leaving the EU, the departure from which is something I estimate to be a “economically bad but if you want it that’s your call”.
NikkiA 7y ago
> Can I apply the same logic the the one that added the UK to the EU? There was no vote to join the EU, we joined when Edward Heath signed us into the EEC. There was a vote a year later as to whether we should remain in the EEC, for which 'remain' won.