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Thanks for posting this - its a pretty good example of requirements creep. I doubt that anyone in the fifties planned out that the president would need 16 cars

by psn 16y ago

Thanks for posting this - its a pretty good example of requirements creep. I doubt that anyone in the fifties planned out that the president would need 16 cars to go anywhere, but thats whats happened. One can picture the Secret Service holding meetings in which they decide to add "just one more" agent.

tptacek 16y ago
To me, "creep" implies that much of what's there is unnecessary. If you told me adding 4 more cars to the motorcade would make the President more secure, I'd so, "go buy 4 more cars now". No part of the motorcade comes close to the cost to the world --- in damage to the markets and in the stupid subsequent policymaking that would result --- of a successful attack.
- kmfrk 16y ago
  Dick Cheney could have been the president of the United States. I'll just wait for that sink in for those who consider cutting costs to Secret Service. :)
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jach 16y ago
    No, no, no. Colin Powell could have been President! If they went after Bush, they'd certainly have gone after Cheney...
- gaius 16y ago
  What about 10 more? 40 more? Tanks? Shutting down the city one block either side of the route? Does the Pres really need a Jumbo Jet to himself? A lot of it is just wanting to be seen to roll with the biggest entourage. Nothing wrong with that per se; diplomacy has been about impressing your counterpart with ostentation since time began. But it is what it is.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    This is an easy, cheap, and boring comment. He's the President. He already won. Adding a tank isn't going to make him feel better about himself, and he's not the one who decides what his motorcade looks like.
    - gaius 16y ago
      "Won"? Ho ho ho, wonder what Vladimir Putin would say about that? That's who it's calculated to impress, not you.
      - gaius 16y ago
        Wow, sorry for insulting the Messiah. But I got 10 million karma, I can say what needs saying. Do any of you Americans even realize there are other world leaders...?
        bane 16y ago
        Huge swaths of D.C. were shut down and reflagged for President Hu a few weeks agov (red flags and gold stars everywhere!). So yeah, when a big-wig comes into town we notice. The President of Finland? Might make an few lines buried in the local news section....so...it depends.
  - mkr-hn 16y ago
    He doesn't have a jumbo jet to himself. He has a jumbo jet to carry a miniature white house--press pool, kitchen, office, and hospital included--wherever he goes.
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  I've worked in DC, and the problem is that the Secret Service sees no end to the amount of things they'd like to do to protect the president: shutting down Pennsylvania Avenue, putting Stingers on the roof of the White House, etc. That's their job, and they're damned good at it. But like everything else, there has to be a bit of balance. They just keep pushing and pushing. No matter what concessions your give to the SS, next week they'll be back asking for more. Many DC residents already feel the situation is out of whack -- try sitting dead still in a traffic jam for an hour while the president goes to get a hot dog or something mundane like that. Or find you cell phone and cell modem suddenly stops working because of jammers. Or -- and this was fun -- find that when you are driving in the only bright yellow pickup truck around that DoHS are stalking you in a Blackhawk for target practice. I haven't been up there working in the last four years or so, but from what I hear it just keeps getting worse. We should do everything reasonable to protect the president, but, in my opinion, we should also realize that the Office of President is supposed to be filled by somebody just like us, not somebody who for all intents and purposes is treated like an emperor and lives in an armed security bubble that extends for miles. If we want that -- and its fine with me if we do -- perhaps we should find some place with a lot of open unused land to house him in away from the millions of people whose lives keep constantly getting disturbed.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    Our office in Chicago is directly across the street from the Federal building where Obama's Senate office was, and where the transition team was based out of. For a couple months after the election, the streets would routinely get closed down as he came or went from the office. We'd get stuck in our car for 15-20 minutes waiting for that to clear. This has nothing to do with "treating the President like an emperor". How the President feels has nothing to do with the catastrophic cost of a successful attack. It seems reasonable to me that we should deal with inconvenience here.
    - davepeck 16y ago
      Interestingly, interruptive presidential security is a relatively recent development. Truman used to walk freely around Washington, DC and his security staff didn't do much to stop him. During the assassination attempt at Blair House, Truman actually opened the second story window and peered out to see what all the gunfire downstairs was about. (If I remember my McCullough correctly, he walked back to the White House just a few hours later with essentially no security.)

by psn 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

To me, "creep" implies that much of what's there is unnecessary. If you told me adding 4 more cars to the motorcade would make the President more secure, I'd so, "go buy 4 more cars now". No part of the motorcade comes close to the cost to the world --- in damage to the markets and in the stupid subsequent policymaking that would result --- of a successful attack.

kmfrk 16y ago
Dick Cheney could have been the president of the United States. I'll just wait for that sink in for those who consider cutting costs to Secret Service. :)
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Jach 16y ago
  No, no, no. Colin Powell could have been President! If they went after Bush, they'd certainly have gone after Cheney...
gaius 16y ago
What about 10 more? 40 more? Tanks? Shutting down the city one block either side of the route? Does the Pres really need a Jumbo Jet to himself? A lot of it is just wanting to be seen to roll with the biggest entourage. Nothing wrong with that per se; diplomacy has been about impressing your counterpart with ostentation since time began. But it is what it is.
- tptacek 16y ago
  This is an easy, cheap, and boring comment. He's the President. He already won. Adding a tank isn't going to make him feel better about himself, and he's not the one who decides what his motorcade looks like.
  - gaius 16y ago
    "Won"? Ho ho ho, wonder what Vladimir Putin would say about that? That's who it's calculated to impress, not you.
    - gaius 16y ago
      Wow, sorry for insulting the Messiah. But I got 10 million karma, I can say what needs saying. Do any of you Americans even realize there are other world leaders...?
      - bane 16y ago
        Huge swaths of D.C. were shut down and reflagged for President Hu a few weeks agov (red flags and gold stars everywhere!). So yeah, when a big-wig comes into town we notice. The President of Finland? Might make an few lines buried in the local news section....so...it depends.
- mkr-hn 16y ago
  He doesn't have a jumbo jet to himself. He has a jumbo jet to carry a miniature white house--press pool, kitchen, office, and hospital included--wherever he goes.
DanielBMarkham 16y ago
I've worked in DC, and the problem is that the Secret Service sees no end to the amount of things they'd like to do to protect the president: shutting down Pennsylvania Avenue, putting Stingers on the roof of the White House, etc. That's their job, and they're damned good at it. But like everything else, there has to be a bit of balance. They just keep pushing and pushing. No matter what concessions your give to the SS, next week they'll be back asking for more. Many DC residents already feel the situation is out of whack -- try sitting dead still in a traffic jam for an hour while the president goes to get a hot dog or something mundane like that. Or find you cell phone and cell modem suddenly stops working because of jammers. Or -- and this was fun -- find that when you are driving in the only bright yellow pickup truck around that DoHS are stalking you in a Blackhawk for target practice. I haven't been up there working in the last four years or so, but from what I hear it just keeps getting worse. We should do everything reasonable to protect the president, but, in my opinion, we should also realize that the Office of President is supposed to be filled by somebody just like us, not somebody who for all intents and purposes is treated like an emperor and lives in an armed security bubble that extends for miles. If we want that -- and its fine with me if we do -- perhaps we should find some place with a lot of open unused land to house him in away from the millions of people whose lives keep constantly getting disturbed.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Our office in Chicago is directly across the street from the Federal building where Obama's Senate office was, and where the transition team was based out of. For a couple months after the election, the streets would routinely get closed down as he came or went from the office. We'd get stuck in our car for 15-20 minutes waiting for that to clear. This has nothing to do with "treating the President like an emperor". How the President feels has nothing to do with the catastrophic cost of a successful attack. It seems reasonable to me that we should deal with inconvenience here.
  - davepeck 16y ago
    Interestingly, interruptive presidential security is a relatively recent development. Truman used to walk freely around Washington, DC and his security staff didn't do much to stop him. During the assassination attempt at Blair House, Truman actually opened the second story window and peered out to see what all the gunfire downstairs was about. (If I remember my McCullough correctly, he walked back to the White House just a few hours later with essentially no security.)