4 ms·

Surely that is more due to testosterone than stupidity.

by Grustaf 7y ago

hatenberg 7y ago
Never ascribe to testosterone what can be adequately explained with Dunning Kruger
- Grustaf 7y ago
  How would Dunning Kruger cause young men to commit crimes?
  - hatenberg 7y ago
    Assuming they won't get caught?
proc0 7y ago
Arguably testosterone can lead to stupid decisions.
lliamander 7y ago
testosterone certainly has a big impact, but the prison population also tends to have a much lower IQ average than the general population, and also tends have much higher rates of psychiatric disorders (schizophrenia, etc.).
- Zod666 7y ago
  Testosterone also leads to risk taking. Stupid risks and smart ones. Testosterone plus intelligence may be why there are more male cofounders/CEO's...
belorn 7y ago
Modern research says no. There has been a lot of research on this topic. You can not measure the testosterone in a group and make a prediction about who is going to commit a crime. If you measure testosterone on criminals, you can't make any prediction about what kind of crime they did. There are weak associations such as risk taking (possible facilitated through increased dopamine transmitters), but there are much stronger links between criminals. To mention a few: Social economical status, social support structure, and childhood trauma is much better predictors than high testosterone. Hormones are a terrible explanation for crime, even if they often have a weak association. Did you know that women are much more likely to have committed a crime during pms? The crime statistics support the link, but ask a researcher and they will list multiple reason why such correlation make for very weak association rather than strong evidence of a link between hormones and crime.
- Grustaf 7y ago
  > You can not measure the testosterone in a group and make a prediction about who is going to commit a crime. Well, if the group is mixed, with both men and women, then you can predict that 95% of the violent crimes will be committed by people with higher testosterone (i.e. men). Surely in that sense it's about testosterone, not genitalia?. That's why it's very surprising to hear that the _level_ of testosterone among men has no predictive power.
  - belorn 7y ago
    Nope, higher testosterone is not an predicting factor for violent crimes. If you measure a mixed group what you get is the same correlation as you would get with any other sex trait. Many research papers has been written on the topic of testosterone and violence, including meta studies. The general conclusions is... there is a weak link between testosterone and violence. No cause and effect, but there is a small amplification of existing behavior, a common finding among endogenous studies. The full reason is complex, but a simplification is that testosterone increase preexisting behavior in relation to social status hierarchy. It makes individuals spend more energy in defending their place on the ladder (spending more time looking at faces to recognize threat, increased response to threatening faces, more suspicion against ambiguous faces). This in turn has a link towards violence, but only in cultures where status is given as an reward for violence. But there is an additional complexity that should be mentioned. A lot of the effects of hormones such as testosterone only happen as a result of changing levels of hormones rather than absolute values. The absolute value has less of a predictive effect then changes over a short time frame.
    - lliamander 7y ago
      Interesting. So, my understanding is that most male violence is committed by males between the ages of 15 and 25 (roughly). That is also generally the period of highest testosterone levels in men. What would cause the spike in violence if not the elevated testosterone levels? I have a couple guesses: 1. This may be a period in which men experience the greatest status uncertainty and so may resort to violence in an attempt to solidify their place in a social hierarchy. 2. This is generally the age range during which many disorders that are more prevalent or severe in men (such as schizophrenia, bi-polar, etc.) begin to manifest.
steve1977 7y ago
Who says testosterone is not related to stupidity? ;)

Surely that is more due to testosterone than stupidity.

hatenberg 7y ago

Never ascribe to testosterone what can be adequately explained with Dunning Kruger

Grustaf 7y ago
How would Dunning Kruger cause young men to commit crimes?
- hatenberg 7y ago
  Assuming they won't get caught?

proc0 7y ago

Arguably testosterone can lead to stupid decisions.

lliamander 7y ago

testosterone certainly has a big impact, but the prison population also tends to have a much lower IQ average than the general population, and also tends have much higher rates of psychiatric disorders (schizophrenia, etc.).

Zod666 7y ago
Testosterone also leads to risk taking. Stupid risks and smart ones. Testosterone plus intelligence may be why there are more male cofounders/CEO's...

belorn 7y ago

Modern research says no. There has been a lot of research on this topic. You can not measure the testosterone in a group and make a prediction about who is going to commit a crime. If you measure testosterone on criminals, you can't make any prediction about what kind of crime they did. There are weak associations such as risk taking (possible facilitated through increased dopamine transmitters), but there are much stronger links between criminals. To mention a few: Social economical status, social support structure, and childhood trauma is much better predictors than high testosterone. Hormones are a terrible explanation for crime, even if they often have a weak association. Did you know that women are much more likely to have committed a crime during pms? The crime statistics support the link, but ask a researcher and they will list multiple reason why such correlation make for very weak association rather than strong evidence of a link between hormones and crime.

Grustaf 7y ago
> You can not measure the testosterone in a group and make a prediction about who is going to commit a crime. Well, if the group is mixed, with both men and women, then you can predict that 95% of the violent crimes will be committed by people with higher testosterone (i.e. men). Surely in that sense it's about testosterone, not genitalia?. That's why it's very surprising to hear that the _level_ of testosterone among men has no predictive power.
- belorn 7y ago
  Nope, higher testosterone is not an predicting factor for violent crimes. If you measure a mixed group what you get is the same correlation as you would get with any other sex trait. Many research papers has been written on the topic of testosterone and violence, including meta studies. The general conclusions is... there is a weak link between testosterone and violence. No cause and effect, but there is a small amplification of existing behavior, a common finding among endogenous studies. The full reason is complex, but a simplification is that testosterone increase preexisting behavior in relation to social status hierarchy. It makes individuals spend more energy in defending their place on the ladder (spending more time looking at faces to recognize threat, increased response to threatening faces, more suspicion against ambiguous faces). This in turn has a link towards violence, but only in cultures where status is given as an reward for violence. But there is an additional complexity that should be mentioned. A lot of the effects of hormones such as testosterone only happen as a result of changing levels of hormones rather than absolute values. The absolute value has less of a predictive effect then changes over a short time frame.
  - lliamander 7y ago
    Interesting. So, my understanding is that most male violence is committed by males between the ages of 15 and 25 (roughly). That is also generally the period of highest testosterone levels in men. What would cause the spike in violence if not the elevated testosterone levels? I have a couple guesses: 1. This may be a period in which men experience the greatest status uncertainty and so may resort to violence in an attempt to solidify their place in a social hierarchy. 2. This is generally the age range during which many disorders that are more prevalent or severe in men (such as schizophrenia, bi-polar, etc.) begin to manifest.

steve1977 7y ago

Who says testosterone is not related to stupidity? ;)