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Incredibly vague statements parroting known talking points with 0 substance to show for it. I hate to be cynical but all this `tech to fix the social problems

Incredibly vague statements parroting known talking points with 0 substance to show for it. I hate to be cynical but all this `tech to fix the social problems created by tech` really brings out the cynic in me. Realistically I know that we do need new solutions but the solution to a drinking problem isn't to deliver better, more mindful alcohol. Edit: To the comments below, I am not asserting that tech has actually created an entire new set of problems out of nothing, just that that is the narrative on display here and in other places. This is part of why it makes me so incredibly cynical.

stickfigure 7y ago
I agree with your evaluation of the article, but I'm tired of this "social problems created by tech" narrative. I grew up in the world before the internet. It was NOT better.
- notlukesky 7y ago
  I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. Everything keeps getting better over time (measured in say decades) but the one constant we will always have is complaining. Yes there are always real problems and new ones are also created, but on the whole we are doing better in many matters.
  - kinleyd 7y ago
    Yes, I think the personal computer sucked in many people who previously would have idled their time elsewhere, having nothing better to do. It was often a life saver or at the very least a more productive use of time - for me it certainly was.
  - mnsc 7y ago
    > I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. That seem like a pretty hard to prove statement. Per definition those who were young in the olden-days of bullying are now old and not in the same situation where the bullying typically happens. I too remember the physical "real" bullying but one up-side of that is that the bullies couldn't get away with that much bullying since it was very visible and left physical traces. Also the extreme solution of relocating was available. Modern day bullies bullies in a very _real_ way (ask someone who is bullied) and it's harder to find a safe place and also harder to find and build a few strong meaningful friendships. Bullies find their way into your bedroom under your covers (phone lights up, "is it them?") and when every relation is visible and measured in likes and engagement good luck getting a friend that wants to connect with someone who is bullied and risk attracting the attention of the bullies. So what until today's young ones are old enough to tell you exactly how bad we fucked them up. Bring tissues. But maybe this app will fix them! Invest!
- dnissley 7y ago
  Indeed. Atomization was well under way before social media came along.
- astura 7y ago
  Same here and I completely agree. Easy, low effort communication has allowed me to much better overcome my poor socialization/abusive childhood and make friends much easier than before. Even something as simple as having a GPS has opened up a lot of doors, as there's places I will go to now that I wouldn't attempt to go to ~10 years ago due to the fear of getting lost.
apatters 7y ago
Your comment (along with statements in the article) presumes that tech is the root cause of these problems but in my opinion this assumption is faulty. Concurrent to the rise in loneliness, depression, anxiety etc. we have experienced a rise in geographical mobility, single parent households, and the divorce rate. Which means that for many, the traditional social networks people relied on for support during hard times--family and lifelong friends--are more distant, geographically and emotionally, than ever before. People may turn to social media as a poor substitute just as alcoholics confronted by trauma turn to drinking, but this doesn't mean that booze or tech are the root cause. I think it's absolutely fair to compare social media to say booze or weed as something that's fine in moderation, but can easily turn into an escape/coping mechanism which has its own problems. Maybe tech can help, maybe not. But what troubles me is that we may be scapegoating tech because the real root causes of our growing mental illness epidemic are too difficult to face. As far as I know there has been no society in history prior to ours where families and lifelong, geographically proximate friends were not the central part of people's lives. Thus we have no proof in the historical record that such a society can even last more than a few generations.
- trevyn 7y ago
  >the real root causes of our growing mental illness epidemic are too difficult to face When this form of issue arises, it seems to be a recurring human pattern to attempt all of the possible alternatives before facing the root causes directly. It sounds like you're proposing that the actual root causes include a move away from families and geographically proximate friends. I'm curious to hear more -- if you have a deeper sense of other root causes, possible solutions, or how we might implement more family and geographically proximate connections, given technology's increasing power to increase geographic, emotional, and economic mobility.
  - antupis 7y ago
    Labor mobility is actually declining https://equitablegrowth.org/declining-u-s-labor-mobility-is-about-more-than-geography/ https://equitablegrowth.org/declining-u-s-labor-mobility-is-...
- 7y ago
darkmighty 7y ago
I don't think the analogy is apt. People need ways to socialize and many are isolated by, among other things, overabundance of individual or shallow entertainment, overabundance of entertainment vs. learning and challenging activities, and excessive demands of work. An app simply trying to connect people could bring less of the former. The problem isn't apps (or 'tech') per se, it's more of a systemic problem. The solutions will almost definitely involve a mix or cultural evolution, technology, and the impact of various groups and organizations.
kerkeslager 7y ago
Yeah, I agree. I want SO BADLY to believe in this, and so far I haven't found anything that I can clearly see is wrong. But I've NEVER seen a company succeed by doing something legitimately prosocial, so my default position isn't trust here.
tveita 7y ago
Of course it's sales copy, but if this is what sells now, maybe we're heading in the right direction? I mainly like this line: "They laid out a few principles to build by: a focus on relationships instead of Likes and followers, conscious design that won’t exploit people’s attention or weaknesses, no ads, and keeping all data private and in control of the user." It would be great if this could be an actual thing.

stickfigure 7y ago

I agree with your evaluation of the article, but I'm tired of this "social problems created by tech" narrative. I grew up in the world before the internet. It was NOT better.

notlukesky 7y ago
I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. Everything keeps getting better over time (measured in say decades) but the one constant we will always have is complaining. Yes there are always real problems and new ones are also created, but on the whole we are doing better in many matters.
- kinleyd 7y ago
  Yes, I think the personal computer sucked in many people who previously would have idled their time elsewhere, having nothing better to do. It was often a life saver or at the very least a more productive use of time - for me it certainly was.
- mnsc 7y ago
  > I actually think it was worse before, just like in many areas. The bullying and fighting then was physical and real. That seem like a pretty hard to prove statement. Per definition those who were young in the olden-days of bullying are now old and not in the same situation where the bullying typically happens. I too remember the physical "real" bullying but one up-side of that is that the bullies couldn't get away with that much bullying since it was very visible and left physical traces. Also the extreme solution of relocating was available. Modern day bullies bullies in a very _real_ way (ask someone who is bullied) and it's harder to find a safe place and also harder to find and build a few strong meaningful friendships. Bullies find their way into your bedroom under your covers (phone lights up, "is it them?") and when every relation is visible and measured in likes and engagement good luck getting a friend that wants to connect with someone who is bullied and risk attracting the attention of the bullies. So what until today's young ones are old enough to tell you exactly how bad we fucked them up. Bring tissues. But maybe this app will fix them! Invest!
dnissley 7y ago
Indeed. Atomization was well under way before social media came along.
astura 7y ago
Same here and I completely agree. Easy, low effort communication has allowed me to much better overcome my poor socialization/abusive childhood and make friends much easier than before. Even something as simple as having a GPS has opened up a lot of doors, as there's places I will go to now that I wouldn't attempt to go to ~10 years ago due to the fear of getting lost.

apatters 7y ago

Your comment (along with statements in the article) presumes that tech is the root cause of these problems but in my opinion this assumption is faulty. Concurrent to the rise in loneliness, depression, anxiety etc. we have experienced a rise in geographical mobility, single parent households, and the divorce rate. Which means that for many, the traditional social networks people relied on for support during hard times--family and lifelong friends--are more distant, geographically and emotionally, than ever before. People may turn to social media as a poor substitute just as alcoholics confronted by trauma turn to drinking, but this doesn't mean that booze or tech are the root cause. I think it's absolutely fair to compare social media to say booze or weed as something that's fine in moderation, but can easily turn into an escape/coping mechanism which has its own problems. Maybe tech can help, maybe not. But what troubles me is that we may be scapegoating tech because the real root causes of our growing mental illness epidemic are too difficult to face. As far as I know there has been no society in history prior to ours where families and lifelong, geographically proximate friends were not the central part of people's lives. Thus we have no proof in the historical record that such a society can even last more than a few generations.

trevyn 7y ago
>the real root causes of our growing mental illness epidemic are too difficult to face When this form of issue arises, it seems to be a recurring human pattern to attempt all of the possible alternatives before facing the root causes directly. It sounds like you're proposing that the actual root causes include a move away from families and geographically proximate friends. I'm curious to hear more -- if you have a deeper sense of other root causes, possible solutions, or how we might implement more family and geographically proximate connections, given technology's increasing power to increase geographic, emotional, and economic mobility.
- antupis 7y ago
  Labor mobility is actually declining https://equitablegrowth.org/declining-u-s-labor-mobility-is-about-more-than-geography/ https://equitablegrowth.org/declining-u-s-labor-mobility-is-...
7y ago

darkmighty 7y ago

I don't think the analogy is apt. People need ways to socialize and many are isolated by, among other things, overabundance of individual or shallow entertainment, overabundance of entertainment vs. learning and challenging activities, and excessive demands of work. An app simply trying to connect people could bring less of the former. The problem isn't apps (or 'tech') per se, it's more of a systemic problem. The solutions will almost definitely involve a mix or cultural evolution, technology, and the impact of various groups and organizations.

kerkeslager 7y ago

Yeah, I agree. I want SO BADLY to believe in this, and so far I haven't found anything that I can clearly see is wrong. But I've NEVER seen a company succeed by doing something legitimately prosocial, so my default position isn't trust here.

tveita 7y ago

Of course it's sales copy, but if this is what sells now, maybe we're heading in the right direction? I mainly like this line: "They laid out a few principles to build by: a focus on relationships instead of Likes and followers, conscious design that won’t exploit people’s attention or weaknesses, no ads, and keeping all data private and in control of the user." It would be great if this could be an actual thing.