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“Are you exactly equal to the worker next to you?” From the point of view of management one or two levels up from you, you are viewed as exactly the same. Most

“Are you exactly equal to the worker next to you?” From the point of view of management one or two levels up from you, you are viewed as exactly the same. Most companies have narrow salary ranges for each level and you get more money mainly by being promoted. In a union shop this is no different.

lawnchair_larry 7y ago
This suggests that you are unfamiliar with modern compensation structures at tech companies. Stock awards are the major differentiator. In a union shop, this is very different.
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  In a union shop, you can vote on how payscales will vote and campaign for a system that you believe is fair. Without a union, you have to take whatever the bosses offer.
  - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
    No, you have to take whatever the market offers, and the market forces are more powerful than an individual boss, for better or for worse. In a tech hub, it’s overwhelmingly “for better” as far as workers are concerned. Otherwise, their company doesn’t survive.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  You are still within a structure with different levels set by management. Not much different from a union.
bluGill 7y ago
Management gives different people different raises. They do regular reviews to decide how much those raises will be, and not every person gets the same raise. Therefore management two levels above me does in fact believe there are differences. They show up over the years both in how fast you move to the top of your level, and in how fast you move up to the next level. In a factory union shop you get a raise based on years of service, and promotions are tied to new skills. (If you currently put tires on and become a certified welder you will get a raise even though you don't weld anything). Again, not all unions force pay scales like this, but unions that don't lose one of their reasons for existing.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  ”In a factory union shop you get a raise based on years of service, and promotions are tied to new skills. ” That’s not how it works for example in Germany. I worked in a union company We had several pay levels and I negotiated with management to skip a few. No difference to the non union company in the US I am working now. The only difference is that the employees aren’t involved in setting pay levels and working conditions.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Did you work in a factory job? That is putting bolts in, or making the same cut on an assembly line, or other such repetitive manual labor job? A position where the limit how fast you can go is the speed the line is set at/the slowest person on your line? A position where you are setup for success for the quality standards? Unions do exist in Germany for non-factory workers and they can measure performance and pay accordingly. This weakens the union a bit because employees do not stand for each other as much as you can get a head even if the next guy is bad.

lawnchair_larry 7y ago

This suggests that you are unfamiliar with modern compensation structures at tech companies. Stock awards are the major differentiator. In a union shop, this is very different.

hannasanarion 7y ago
In a union shop, you can vote on how payscales will vote and campaign for a system that you believe is fair. Without a union, you have to take whatever the bosses offer.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago
  No, you have to take whatever the market offers, and the market forces are more powerful than an individual boss, for better or for worse. In a tech hub, it’s overwhelmingly “for better” as far as workers are concerned. Otherwise, their company doesn’t survive.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
You are still within a structure with different levels set by management. Not much different from a union.

bluGill 7y ago

Management gives different people different raises. They do regular reviews to decide how much those raises will be, and not every person gets the same raise. Therefore management two levels above me does in fact believe there are differences. They show up over the years both in how fast you move to the top of your level, and in how fast you move up to the next level. In a factory union shop you get a raise based on years of service, and promotions are tied to new skills. (If you currently put tires on and become a certified welder you will get a raise even though you don't weld anything). Again, not all unions force pay scales like this, but unions that don't lose one of their reasons for existing.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
”In a factory union shop you get a raise based on years of service, and promotions are tied to new skills. ” That’s not how it works for example in Germany. I worked in a union company We had several pay levels and I negotiated with management to skip a few. No difference to the non union company in the US I am working now. The only difference is that the employees aren’t involved in setting pay levels and working conditions.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Did you work in a factory job? That is putting bolts in, or making the same cut on an assembly line, or other such repetitive manual labor job? A position where the limit how fast you can go is the speed the line is set at/the slowest person on your line? A position where you are setup for success for the quality standards? Unions do exist in Germany for non-factory workers and they can measure performance and pay accordingly. This weakens the union a bit because employees do not stand for each other as much as you can get a head even if the next guy is bad.