5 ms·

Man kills parents and begs for mercy because he’s an orphan.

by MaupitiBlue 7y ago

hinoki 7y ago
Who are the parents in this analogy?
- lolc 7y ago
  Nations probably? So Assange is abused because he exposed the cheating of his parents? I don't know, doesn't work well the analogy for me. Or maybe too well.
lolc 7y ago
Commenter on Hacker News sees nothing wrong in torture when it hits the ones that had it coming.
- vkou 7y ago
  How is he currently being tortured in prison? TFA does not answer this question.
  - tartoran 7y ago
    I think it hints at psychological torture
    - vkou 7y ago
      You'd figure that if he was being tortured in prison, TFA could actually say so, and we wouldn't need to try to glean hints. Yet, if you follow the references [1], you'll see a fantastic sleight of hand. [2] Assange spent 7 years in self-imposed exile in the embassy. Throughout this period of time, torture experts have determined that he is showing the psychological symptoms of a torture victim. In April, he was imprisoned. Torture experts continued visiting him, and have continued observing that he was showing the psychological symptoms of a torture victim. Shockingly, neither prison, nor his conviction for skipping bail make him better. No evidence that anything about the condition of his imprisonment constitutes torture has been provided. Instead, people point at him, and say that he has clearly been traumatized. That is true - but all evidence points to the trauma being inflicted during his self-imposed exile. [1] https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doctors-about-the-plight-of-mr-julian-assange-ffb09a5dd588 https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doct... [2] The sleight of hand, of course, is blaming his current imprisonment on medical problems that he picked up during his self-imposed exile.
      - 93po 7y ago
        Did you want some sort of torture-detecting-machine where Assange puts in his fingers and the machine beeps loudly with flashing lights? Doctors have observed, reported, documented, and endorsed that he is being tortured. I don't know what else you could possibly want.
        vkou 7y ago
        No, I'd like some evidence for one of these two claims: 1. Prisoners in Belmarsh are routinely tortured. 2. Prisoners in Belmarsh are not routinely tortured, but Assange in particular is being singled out for a surprise helping of torture in Belmarsh. Neither TFA, nor its sources provide any evidence for either of those two things. What they do provide is evidence for the much less incendiary, and less surprising claim of: 1. Assange has not gotten any better since his self-imposed exile. > Doctors have observed, reported, documented, and endorsed that he is being tortured. No, they haven't. If you disagree, please cite sources. Ones that don't do the bait-and-switch of pointing at the medical problems he acquired during his pre-incarceration living conditions, and using that to 'prove' the entirely unrelated claim that he is being tortured in Belmarsh. I strongly doubt that such sources exist, because if they did, publications like TFA would directly, and unambiguously cite them, instead of dancing around the truth.
        93po 7y ago
        Assange is a political prisoner and clearly his treatment and situation is different from the rest, so a comparison isn't helpful. The source is the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. It's linked in the very top of TFA. Sorry you don't like the truth and are yourself trying to dance around it
        vkou 7y ago
        Why does it matter if he's a political prisoner, or a shoplifter? He's either being tortured, or he's not. > The source is the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. I have read TFA, I have read its sources, and I see no evidence that points to him currently being tortured, as I have said three times in this thread. Is there a specific passage that you would like to highlight?
  - ge0rg 7y ago
    It is our opinion that Mr Assange requires urgent expert medical assessment of both his physical and psychological state of health. Any medical treatment indicated should be administered in a properly equipped and expertly staffed university teaching hospital (tertiary care). Were such urgent assessment and treatment not to take place, we have real concerns, on the evidence currently available, that Mr Assange could die in prison. The medical situation is thereby urgent. There is no time to lose.
    - three_seagrass 7y ago
      It's based on observation in court only. Also, Assange's health was in strong decline before he was released from the Embassy, which could be a factor: https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doctors-about-the-plight-of-mr-julian-assange-ffb09a5dd588 https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doct... I'm not saying there isn't torture happening, just that there isn't much evidence to the claim that he's being tortured right now.
  - KerryJones 7y ago
    Does it matter? He's limping, pale, unable to answer basic questions. "Oh, it's only waterboarding, that's not real torture..." Torture is torture.
  - lastres0rt 7y ago
    The article implies that the 7 years he spent in the embassy prior to his arrest amounted to torture. IMO, at best we could dub his deterioration in the embassy as "self-inflicted", or more accurately institutional neglect on the part of the governments involved.
  - cjhveal 7y ago
    "... prior to his detention in Belmarsh prison in conditions amounting to solitary confinement, spent almost 7 years restricted to a few rooms in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Here, he had been deprived of fresh air, sunlight, the ability to move and exercise freely, and access to adequate medical care." Extensive solitary confinement is criticized as a form psychological torture. If you're familiar with the US detention system, the treatment of Assange might seem pretty commonplace, the international community generally considers this a form of torture.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      Which, one, is Assange's fault for staying the embassy rather than facing the court system. But you could give him that if he truly believed that there was a conspiracy against him and that he couldn't get actual justice. Then, two, it's Ecuador's fault that he's confined to a few rooms, can't exercise, can't get sunlight, etc. I mean, doesn't their embassy have windows somewhere? Everyone tries to make this Britain's fault somehow. I can't see it.
totiousti 7y ago
it is funny to see how public opinion shifted once the narrative of him being a russian agent having helped trump appeared. People hate trump more than they hate being lied to
- 93po 7y ago
  It's ridiculous that anyone can have anything but abundant thanks for this man. He shows us the war crimes, lying, cheating, and hypocrisy of our nations' leaders. And yet people want to see him imprisoned or killed because it happened to be against their political preferences. Awful.
dang 7y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to Hacker News. "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Man kills parents and begs for mercy because he’s an orphan.

hinoki 7y ago

Who are the parents in this analogy?

lolc 7y ago
Nations probably? So Assange is abused because he exposed the cheating of his parents? I don't know, doesn't work well the analogy for me. Or maybe too well.

lolc 7y ago

Commenter on Hacker News sees nothing wrong in torture when it hits the ones that had it coming.

vkou 7y ago
How is he currently being tortured in prison? TFA does not answer this question.
- tartoran 7y ago
  I think it hints at psychological torture
  - vkou 7y ago
    You'd figure that if he was being tortured in prison, TFA could actually say so, and we wouldn't need to try to glean hints. Yet, if you follow the references [1], you'll see a fantastic sleight of hand. [2] Assange spent 7 years in self-imposed exile in the embassy. Throughout this period of time, torture experts have determined that he is showing the psychological symptoms of a torture victim. In April, he was imprisoned. Torture experts continued visiting him, and have continued observing that he was showing the psychological symptoms of a torture victim. Shockingly, neither prison, nor his conviction for skipping bail make him better. No evidence that anything about the condition of his imprisonment constitutes torture has been provided. Instead, people point at him, and say that he has clearly been traumatized. That is true - but all evidence points to the trauma being inflicted during his self-imposed exile. [1] https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doctors-about-the-plight-of-mr-julian-assange-ffb09a5dd588 https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doct... [2] The sleight of hand, of course, is blaming his current imprisonment on medical problems that he picked up during his self-imposed exile.
    - 93po 7y ago
      Did you want some sort of torture-detecting-machine where Assange puts in his fingers and the machine beeps loudly with flashing lights? Doctors have observed, reported, documented, and endorsed that he is being tortured. I don't know what else you could possibly want.
      - vkou 7y ago
        No, I'd like some evidence for one of these two claims: 1. Prisoners in Belmarsh are routinely tortured. 2. Prisoners in Belmarsh are not routinely tortured, but Assange in particular is being singled out for a surprise helping of torture in Belmarsh. Neither TFA, nor its sources provide any evidence for either of those two things. What they do provide is evidence for the much less incendiary, and less surprising claim of: 1. Assange has not gotten any better since his self-imposed exile. > Doctors have observed, reported, documented, and endorsed that he is being tortured. No, they haven't. If you disagree, please cite sources. Ones that don't do the bait-and-switch of pointing at the medical problems he acquired during his pre-incarceration living conditions, and using that to 'prove' the entirely unrelated claim that he is being tortured in Belmarsh. I strongly doubt that such sources exist, because if they did, publications like TFA would directly, and unambiguously cite them, instead of dancing around the truth.
        93po 7y ago
        Assange is a political prisoner and clearly his treatment and situation is different from the rest, so a comparison isn't helpful. The source is the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. It's linked in the very top of TFA. Sorry you don't like the truth and are yourself trying to dance around it
        vkou 7y ago
        Why does it matter if he's a political prisoner, or a shoplifter? He's either being tortured, or he's not. > The source is the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. I have read TFA, I have read its sources, and I see no evidence that points to him currently being tortured, as I have said three times in this thread. Is there a specific passage that you would like to highlight?
- ge0rg 7y ago
  It is our opinion that Mr Assange requires urgent expert medical assessment of both his physical and psychological state of health. Any medical treatment indicated should be administered in a properly equipped and expertly staffed university teaching hospital (tertiary care). Were such urgent assessment and treatment not to take place, we have real concerns, on the evidence currently available, that Mr Assange could die in prison. The medical situation is thereby urgent. There is no time to lose.
  - three_seagrass 7y ago
    It's based on observation in court only. Also, Assange's health was in strong decline before he was released from the Embassy, which could be a factor: https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doctors-about-the-plight-of-mr-julian-assange-ffb09a5dd588 https://medium.com/@doctors4assange/concerns-of-medical-doct... I'm not saying there isn't torture happening, just that there isn't much evidence to the claim that he's being tortured right now.
- KerryJones 7y ago
  Does it matter? He's limping, pale, unable to answer basic questions. "Oh, it's only waterboarding, that's not real torture..." Torture is torture.
- lastres0rt 7y ago
  The article implies that the 7 years he spent in the embassy prior to his arrest amounted to torture. IMO, at best we could dub his deterioration in the embassy as "self-inflicted", or more accurately institutional neglect on the part of the governments involved.
- cjhveal 7y ago
  "... prior to his detention in Belmarsh prison in conditions amounting to solitary confinement, spent almost 7 years restricted to a few rooms in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. Here, he had been deprived of fresh air, sunlight, the ability to move and exercise freely, and access to adequate medical care." Extensive solitary confinement is criticized as a form psychological torture. If you're familiar with the US detention system, the treatment of Assange might seem pretty commonplace, the international community generally considers this a form of torture.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Which, one, is Assange's fault for staying the embassy rather than facing the court system. But you could give him that if he truly believed that there was a conspiracy against him and that he couldn't get actual justice. Then, two, it's Ecuador's fault that he's confined to a few rooms, can't exercise, can't get sunlight, etc. I mean, doesn't their embassy have windows somewhere? Everyone tries to make this Britain's fault somehow. I can't see it.

totiousti 7y ago

it is funny to see how public opinion shifted once the narrative of him being a russian agent having helped trump appeared. People hate trump more than they hate being lied to

93po 7y ago
It's ridiculous that anyone can have anything but abundant thanks for this man. He shows us the war crimes, lying, cheating, and hypocrisy of our nations' leaders. And yet people want to see him imprisoned or killed because it happened to be against their political preferences. Awful.

dang 7y ago

Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to Hacker News. "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html