3 ms·

Respectfully, plenty of misandrists and anti-White racists do show up to those meetings and join panels to push their discriminatory agenda. Why do you think w

Respectfully, plenty of misandrists and anti-White racists do show up to those meetings and join panels to push their discriminatory agenda. Why do you think we talk about the lack of women in STEM, but not the lack of men in HR, education, social work, psychology, etc? Because bigots set the agenda. Having sports programs for one sex has been ruled illegal under Title IX — but how many universities have special tutoring just for women? That is, programs to help women in majors where they trail but offering no similar programs for men in majors where they trail. Again, the reason we don’t talk about that illegal discrimination is because bigots set the agenda.

gamblor956 7y ago
There are plenty of men in HR, education, and social work. Men simply don't go into those fields as much as women do because they pay less than comparable positions in other fields. Case in point: the number of men in nursing has been increasing every year without having any gender-based outreach efforts, because nurses make good money, get longer weekends, and you don't need 10 years of degrees to become a nurse. Similarly, the % of men employed as educators increases with salary. Or in other words, very few male teachers at the K-3 levels, more at the middle-school level, and the largest % of male teachers at the high-school level.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ken 7y ago
Not in my experience (2 unions). Do you have any examples of unions where this has occurred? (Recently, not some event from the 1950's or 1960's -- racists and sexists were much more powerful in all forums back then.) Your example is universities, and I've never heard of any university faculty being unionized. In fact, that's another great example of a system where policymakers have immense prestige and very high paying jobs. Tenure allows senior faculty to set crazy agendas of all sorts, good and bad. That's the main criticism of the tenure system! Having worked a few years in academia and a few years under a trade union, I can tell you the two could not be more different, in structure or operation. I'm not sure how a criticism of academia is relevant in a discussion of unions. You ask "How many universities have special tutoring just for women?". I don't know. How many? I searched the 3 colleges I've attended in my life, and none of them do (or at least it's not easy to find online -- compared to all the "free tutoring for all" that I found). Are you suggesting that many do? If you want to talk about illegal discrimination, give me facts, not vague innuendo and rhetorical leading questions. And let's not get distracted by unrelated systems.
- miscPerson 7y ago
  I upvoted for the valid callout about being off topic.
- qtplatypus 7y ago
  I’ve worked in Australian Universities and both the support staff and teaching/research staff where unionised. And sure there are professional with tenure but there are also quite a large number of adjunct professors who are basically being exploited.
charlesu 7y ago
What is discriminatory about taking active measures to ensure that the tech monoculture does not perpetuate itself? If there are programs for women in STEM majors who need extra support, it is because women in STEM majors may have to surmount an obstacle that men do not: namely, that women are not fit for engineering. This webcomic sums up why so many organizations take active measures to support women in STEM in one panel: https://xkcd.com/385/ https://xkcd.com/385/
- miscPerson 7y ago
  It’s illegal discrimination to provide programs only for the majority sex — see rulings on only having sports programs for men. (Women have been the majority of college students since the 1980s.) There’s nothing wrong with women in STEM programs, but not having matching men-in-social-sciences programs is a Title IX violation... precisely in the way only having sports for men would be. You can have programs for no one; you can have programs for everyone; you cant have programs only for one sex. That’s literally the point of civil rights laws.
  - charlesu 7y ago
    That's an oversimplification of Title IX. Nowhere does it state that a university must offer the same sports programs or even the same number of sports programs for each gender. It only states that women who desire to play sports be accommodated, which is to say, a school can't only have sports programs for men. From the US Department of Education website: A college or university is not required to offer particular sports or the same sports for each sex. Also, an institution is not required to offer an equal number of sports for each sex. However, an institution must accommodate to the same degree the athletic interests and abilities of each sex in the selection of sports [1] [1] https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/interath.html https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/interath.htm...
    - miscPerson 7y ago
      > which is to say, a school can't only have sports programs for men > However, an institution must accommodate to the same degree the athletic interests and abilities of each sex in the selection of sports Both you and the quoted text agree with my position: I didn’t say it had to be support in the same majors, or an equal number of majors; I said that programs for supporting men in majors where they trail must exist if such programs exist for women (such as women in STEM). The current state of affairs is that some programs for women exist while none do for men; nothing you’ve said disputes that’s a violation of Title IX. I appreciate the quote, though: ”must accommodate to the same degree ... interests and abilities of each sex” That seems like a direct callout that supporting one sex academically while not supporting the other might be problematic.
whateveracct 7y ago
What a trainwreck of a comment White men really have it rough don't they homie (lmao)
ieRei6ae 7y ago
> anti-White racists Please spare the alt-right dog whistle.
- miscPerson 7y ago
  Could you explain how that’s a dog whistle? I was referring to racist groups such as the Nation of Islam [0], who have put quite a bit of effort into building an anti-White power structure based on racist ideals. Fun fact: one of their leaders — the one who had Malcolm X killed — meets with the Black Caucus, including Obama. (Of course, they covered that up during the election. [1]) And referring to people like Jussie Smollett, who committed multiple felonies to ferment hatred of White people. And that major news organizations will blatantly lie to defame White children, when the reality is they were being harassed by another racist group, the Black Hebrew Israelites [2][3]. [0] https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou... [1] https://www.ajc.com/news/local/could-this-long-lost-photo-have-derailed-obama-2008-campaign/jC8NKhQr6a72VjRYY9o0EM/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/could-this-long-lost-photo-ha... [2] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/12/12/suspects-jersey-city-attack-expressed-interest-black-hebrew-israelites-authorities-say https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/12/12/suspects-jers... [3] https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-defamation-suit-settled https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-de...
- whateveracct 7y ago
  Sadly, that sort of thing gets boosted on HN & calling it out for what it is like you did gets your comment turned grey & flagged.

gamblor956 7y ago

There are plenty of men in HR, education, and social work. Men simply don't go into those fields as much as women do because they pay less than comparable positions in other fields. Case in point: the number of men in nursing has been increasing every year without having any gender-based outreach efforts, because nurses make good money, get longer weekends, and you don't need 10 years of degrees to become a nurse. Similarly, the % of men employed as educators increases with salary. Or in other words, very few male teachers at the K-3 levels, more at the middle-school level, and the largest % of male teachers at the high-school level.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

ken 7y ago

Not in my experience (2 unions). Do you have any examples of unions where this has occurred? (Recently, not some event from the 1950's or 1960's -- racists and sexists were much more powerful in all forums back then.) Your example is universities, and I've never heard of any university faculty being unionized. In fact, that's another great example of a system where policymakers have immense prestige and very high paying jobs. Tenure allows senior faculty to set crazy agendas of all sorts, good and bad. That's the main criticism of the tenure system! Having worked a few years in academia and a few years under a trade union, I can tell you the two could not be more different, in structure or operation. I'm not sure how a criticism of academia is relevant in a discussion of unions. You ask "How many universities have special tutoring just for women?". I don't know. How many? I searched the 3 colleges I've attended in my life, and none of them do (or at least it's not easy to find online -- compared to all the "free tutoring for all" that I found). Are you suggesting that many do? If you want to talk about illegal discrimination, give me facts, not vague innuendo and rhetorical leading questions. And let's not get distracted by unrelated systems.

miscPerson 7y ago
I upvoted for the valid callout about being off topic.
qtplatypus 7y ago
I’ve worked in Australian Universities and both the support staff and teaching/research staff where unionised. And sure there are professional with tenure but there are also quite a large number of adjunct professors who are basically being exploited.

charlesu 7y ago

What is discriminatory about taking active measures to ensure that the tech monoculture does not perpetuate itself? If there are programs for women in STEM majors who need extra support, it is because women in STEM majors may have to surmount an obstacle that men do not: namely, that women are not fit for engineering. This webcomic sums up why so many organizations take active measures to support women in STEM in one panel: https://xkcd.com/385/ https://xkcd.com/385/

miscPerson 7y ago
It’s illegal discrimination to provide programs only for the majority sex — see rulings on only having sports programs for men. (Women have been the majority of college students since the 1980s.) There’s nothing wrong with women in STEM programs, but not having matching men-in-social-sciences programs is a Title IX violation... precisely in the way only having sports for men would be. You can have programs for no one; you can have programs for everyone; you cant have programs only for one sex. That’s literally the point of civil rights laws.
- charlesu 7y ago
  That's an oversimplification of Title IX. Nowhere does it state that a university must offer the same sports programs or even the same number of sports programs for each gender. It only states that women who desire to play sports be accommodated, which is to say, a school can't only have sports programs for men. From the US Department of Education website: A college or university is not required to offer particular sports or the same sports for each sex. Also, an institution is not required to offer an equal number of sports for each sex. However, an institution must accommodate to the same degree the athletic interests and abilities of each sex in the selection of sports [1] [1] https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/interath.html https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/interath.htm...
  - miscPerson 7y ago
    > which is to say, a school can't only have sports programs for men > However, an institution must accommodate to the same degree the athletic interests and abilities of each sex in the selection of sports Both you and the quoted text agree with my position: I didn’t say it had to be support in the same majors, or an equal number of majors; I said that programs for supporting men in majors where they trail must exist if such programs exist for women (such as women in STEM). The current state of affairs is that some programs for women exist while none do for men; nothing you’ve said disputes that’s a violation of Title IX. I appreciate the quote, though: ”must accommodate to the same degree ... interests and abilities of each sex” That seems like a direct callout that supporting one sex academically while not supporting the other might be problematic.

whateveracct 7y ago

What a trainwreck of a comment White men really have it rough don't they homie (lmao)

ieRei6ae 7y ago

> anti-White racists Please spare the alt-right dog whistle.

miscPerson 7y ago
Could you explain how that’s a dog whistle? I was referring to racist groups such as the Nation of Islam [0], who have put quite a bit of effort into building an anti-White power structure based on racist ideals. Fun fact: one of their leaders — the one who had Malcolm X killed — meets with the Black Caucus, including Obama. (Of course, they covered that up during the election. [1]) And referring to people like Jussie Smollett, who committed multiple felonies to ferment hatred of White people. And that major news organizations will blatantly lie to defame White children, when the reality is they were being harassed by another racist group, the Black Hebrew Israelites [2][3]. [0] https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou... [1] https://www.ajc.com/news/local/could-this-long-lost-photo-have-derailed-obama-2008-campaign/jC8NKhQr6a72VjRYY9o0EM/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/could-this-long-lost-photo-ha... [2] https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/12/12/suspects-jersey-city-attack-expressed-interest-black-hebrew-israelites-authorities-say https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/12/12/suspects-jers... [3] https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-defamation-suit-settled https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-covington-nick-sandmann-de...
whateveracct 7y ago
Sadly, that sort of thing gets boosted on HN & calling it out for what it is like you did gets your comment turned grey & flagged.