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No. The Romans never would have allowed an industrial revolution. They knew all about aqueducts, but they didn't even bother using water power to mill grain, be

No. The Romans never would have allowed an industrial revolution. They knew all about aqueducts, but they didn't even bother using water power to mill grain, because that would have undermined too many powerful people whose economic might was backed by the slave economy. The whole "Dark Ages were backwards after Rome collapsed" story overall is a historical meme pushed by motivated reasoning and poorly backed by facts. Even "collapse" is dubious. If Rome was really on the cusp of industrial revolution, why didn't Byzantium bother to finish the job any time in the next 1,000 years?

radu_floricica 7y ago
A link I managed to google quickly: https://phys.org/news/2019-05-roman-polluted-european-air-heavily.html https://phys.org/news/2019-05-roman-polluted-european-air-he... Sure, there was progress after the roman times, and sure, Dark Ages weren't really that dark, I totally agree. Scientific progress in particular kept going forward. But as a whole, the sheer quantity of civilization went down when the roman empire split, in measurable ways.
usrusr 7y ago
> but they didn't even bother using water power to mill grain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mills https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mills Slave labor may have caused a massive employment problem for the lower tiers of the non-slave population, but it sure did not cause Romans to skimp on water powered grain mills.
bertr4nd 7y ago
I just read Bryan Ward-Perkins’s “The Fall of Rome” and it argues pretty persuasively that the era after the fall was materially worse off than during the Roman Empire. Specifically the quality and quantity of manufactured artifacts and dwellings in the archaeological record appears to fall off substantially. Not to mention there’s some evidence (eg graffiti fragments) that indicates literacy also declined in this period.

radu_floricica 7y ago

A link I managed to google quickly: https://phys.org/news/2019-05-roman-polluted-european-air-heavily.html https://phys.org/news/2019-05-roman-polluted-european-air-he... Sure, there was progress after the roman times, and sure, Dark Ages weren't really that dark, I totally agree. Scientific progress in particular kept going forward. But as a whole, the sheer quantity of civilization went down when the roman empire split, in measurable ways.

usrusr 7y ago

> but they didn't even bother using water power to mill grain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mills https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mills Slave labor may have caused a massive employment problem for the lower tiers of the non-slave population, but it sure did not cause Romans to skimp on water powered grain mills.

bertr4nd 7y ago

I just read Bryan Ward-Perkins’s “The Fall of Rome” and it argues pretty persuasively that the era after the fall was materially worse off than during the Roman Empire. Specifically the quality and quantity of manufactured artifacts and dwellings in the archaeological record appears to fall off substantially. Not to mention there’s some evidence (eg graffiti fragments) that indicates literacy also declined in this period.