This discussion reminds me of an article Derek Sivers wrote about switching back to PHP from Rails. http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_swit

This discussion reminds me of an article Derek Sivers wrote about switching back to PHP from Rails. http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_swit... Basically he states that programming in PHP using the rails mindset (but no framework) saved him mountains of time. I think the MVC idea is great but I also agree that frameworks are over encompassing beasts that can add more functionality than you need to a project. I keep being attracted by the thought of using a framework but they always seem to over complicate things. I like using SQL and I feel hand tied when frameworks hide that functionality away.